Boycott Atlus

[Sifright]

Hey Bells, I'm really happy for you and i'ma let you finish. But atlus releases some of the most sexist games of ALL TIME. ALL TIME.

Edit: basically I'm responding to you with the respect i feel your post deserves.

Liz calling out that specific example as objectification is completely correct, the picture dehumanizes the woman by not showing her face and focusing on her sexual characteristics.

[Grimpond]

Originally Posted by Bells

"your side" i have no problem with. But the way you go about making your case, presenting evidence, claiming shit... that's all pretty silly, child like even. Over analyzing galore that hurts your point much more than it makes it...

Wanna bang your feet to the ground and yell "Tone Argument!" at me? Fine, go right ahead... a cop out is a cop out regardless. If you didn't make your own points so poorly it wouldn't be a problem to support them, but you just do. You have a case, you just seem to not have the first clue on how to go about it.

Have you seen the trailer for the game? It doesn't play to your arguments.

have you seen the scene in the game where the character changes into the clothes it shows on the box? It doesn't play to your arguments.

All you show is gross Superficial Overanalysis without any care for actual context, intent or meaning... you just want to pick a fight to make a point YOU want to make, regardless of it being real or not. You're trying to construct this "big bad monster" out of straws with no purpose or meaning, because your way of fighting is some sort of bullshit Boycott that will not cause a dent... where you could use the exact SAME cause (which HAS valid arguments) to promote a better understanding and awareness of the issues you feel strongly about.

This last issue you pointed out with Soul Hackers? It's Bullshit, absolutely bullshit... you don't have a point. Not on this. Just drop it! You're not gonna turn it into a point just because you keep yelling that people don't understand how you think... as if everybody else is "Obtuse" except you, that somehow is covered in a silver lining of deeper understanding of everything... There is objectification of women in media, it's real, it's bad... but this ain't it. Doesn't matter how "Peta" you wanna get about it.

Bells, have you fucking read ANYTHING Liz has posted. She has provided links, sources and explained her reasoning in such absolute fucking clarity that GOD would weep at its' elegance.

She is NOT overanalyzing, she is NOT trying to belittle. you are ASKING for reasons and explanations and she is providing them for you!!! I am just so fucking dumbfounded by your refusal to accept what Liz is saying despite the overwhelming amount of evidence; It's giving me a very, very terrible impression of your viewpoints and your ideals, like, really just, so fucking terrible.

[Solid Snake]

Holy shit, Bells.
Like, take a timeout or something. Take a night off and think it over.
...Just, stop.

Originally Posted by Bells

"your side" i have no problem with. But the way you go about making your case, presenting evidence, claiming shit... that's all pretty silly, child like even.

...So it's ridiculous to present objective evidence supporting a claim that Atlus' developers and game designers are sexist? It's 'over-analyzing' to merely recognize and document the existence of sexist stereotypes?
...I'm trying to wrap my head around this sentiment and I'm utterly failing to make any sense of it.

Wanna bang your feet to the ground and yell "Tone Argument!" at me? Fine, go right ahead... a cop out is a cop out regardless. If you didn't make your own points so poorly it wouldn't be a problem to support them, but you just do.

Would you like to actually articulate examples of specific arguments advanced by Liz, Poch, I, or anyone else regarding Atlus' sexism that were 'made poorly?' Because otherwise, this claim is essentially just trolling; you're trying to aggravate us by saying what a 'terrible job' we're doing of making our cases, without actually offering constructive criticism that has any real value.

Oh, no, wait, your modus operandi is just to accuse Liz / Poch / whoever of 'superficial overanalysis without any care for actual context, intent or meaning.'
...Where the fuck do you get that? Are we reading the same thread? I'm pretty sure Liz and Pocheros have a far better understanding of the actual context, intent or meaning of what Atlus intends through its shitty writing.

...Did you read, for example, PCD and I's Wall o' Text deconstruction of the Yasogami Pageant bullshit? Did you ever even bother to respond to that and defend Atlus' glaring reliance on transphobia, homophobia, sexism, etc. 'for laughs', or are you merely cherrypicking your responses, ignoring specific grievances well-supported by evidence and instead concentrating on a few more general statements that you can deliberately misconstrue in an effort to demonize your imagined opponents?

[Bells]

Grim... breath and think.

Partially obscures the face, somewhat dehumanizing the woman on the cover and puts her partially revealed chest just above the title. I believe I overuse the phrase objectifying, but I'd still say this is a textbook example of it.

This is what liz said, this is i'm commenting on.

It's superficial overanalyzing. It's bullshit. Get over it.

Mind you that the actual points i made on my post, so far, have gone answered... but like i said you guys prefer to argue the person not the point...

...So it's ridiculous to present objective evidence supporting a claim that Atlus' developers and game designers are sexist? It's 'over-analyzing' to merely recognize and document the existence of sexist stereotypes?
...I'm trying to wrap my head around this sentiment and I'm utterly failing to make any sense of it.

Try reading what i wrote aside from that one line, it might help snake... you can release walls of text on a whim i'm sure you can read a couple of paragraphs and think about it for more than 2 minutes before answering...

[pochercoaster]

Your first link doesn't work. Your second link doesn't prove anything. The box art still shows an attractive woman's body with her tits out- nothing in the game changes that. In fact, if the game itself isn't sexist that just proves my point further, that whoever made the box art did so knowing that sexualizing a woman's body would grab people's attention and compel them to buy it moreso than the game's individual merits might. This is a pretty basic concept.

Why do you analyze this stuff and then say I'm (we're?) overanalyzing things? Because you don't like the conclusions we come to. Why do you say we're picking a fight when we have presented countless valid, logically consistent arguments? I am not stomping my feet on the ground- I merely presented my arguments and information to back it up. However, you are now attacking me (us?), calling me child like, and accusing me of throwing a temper tantrum. You further compare us to PETA, as if people demanding for transgendered people, women, etc. to be portrayed as three dimensional human beings is as extreme as an organization that bombs science labs.

You have no idea what it's like to live as a woman or a transgendered person or a homosexual person and be bombarded by these images for your entire life. You have no idea how much of an assault on your psyche it is.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Bells

It's superficial overanalyzing. It's bullshit. Get over it.

It's an entirely correct, factually accurate interpretation of that boxart.

And if you'd like to disagree with Liz regarding how sexist you believe it is or some shit, you can A: at least do some actual research into objectification and sexism in media portrayals of women before writing your comment so you can discuss the issue intelligently as opposing to assuming Liz is 'over-analyzing' and responding with offensive and belittling generic commentary, and B: at least approach the argument with a modicum of decency, respond to Liz's articulations intelligently, and have a real intellectual discussion as opposed to a bunch of bullshit comments accusing Liz and Poch and whoever else of stirring up the pot for the mere sake of stirring up the pot.

...You're assuming malicious / negative intent where you have no right to do so. At least assume that Liz is actually advancing an argument 'in good faith' -- however flawed you believe that argument is -- so we can have a legitimate discussion on the matter.

[Bells]

nothing in the game changes that.

So, since you already played the whole game, care to share your thoughts on it?

It's an entirely correct, factually accurate interpretation of that boxart.

It's not when you read what "factually" means. It's an interpretation alright... albeit a misguided one, that doens't take in consideration a lot of things...

Because there is an artistic representation behind it with a cultural history behind it to support it's existence and it conflicts with your personal views... of which, none of you commented a thing about. So, should i just consider you all Xenophobes?

[pochercoaster]

Oh yeah, there is cultural history behind it. History of a culture that is patriarchal.

[Bells]

So, Xenophobe then... ok,got it.

[Marc v4.0]

Originally Posted by Bells

So, Xenophobe then... ok,got it.

I take it all back, this is the worst thing I have read in this entire thread.