The Dark Knight Rises

Magus · 07-21-2012, 05:01 PM

I got some mixed feelings on this one. Let's go over it:

1. Unlike the Dark Knight which seemed to focus on greater thematic elements or social commentary, this movie is pretty much just a Batman movie through-and-through. The trailers are basically lies--there's no real anti-capitalist or anti-socialist rhetoric in this movie, nothing really resembling a comment on Occupy Wall Street or the Recession or whatever. In fact the class warfare element is probably about the same or less prevalent than it even was in Batman Begins. All we really get here is some acknowledgement that there are some poor people in the city, and...that's about it. There's one or two other scenes that fit into this "theme", but it's so thin and basically absent that I think it was almost tacked on as an afterthought. It falls to the wayside pretty quickly. Sure, Bane makes a couple of speeches, sets up a kangaroo court, does his "breaking out of the Bastille" thing...but it basically has nothing to really do with an allegory. It's to torture Bruce. Bane says as much before even doing it, and the specter of the nuclear bomb basically puts the nail in the coffin of any real symbolism. I wish Bane HAD fulfilled the promise of the trailers in creating a real dystopia, but what actually happens is much more by-the-numbers and driven more by character-motivation. For instance, in my opinion, Bane breaking the prisoners out of jail is more about the fact that he was a prisoner, not really because of class warfare, whereas the commercials make it look like this is part of his "revolution". It's really just part of his plan to destroy Gotham and mentally torture Bruce.

2. Of course, failing to do another allegory might be for the best. Then we don't have to argue over it. Now, as a film about Batman, I think it excels. This movie is pretty deeply involved with the character. There is such an indepth exploration of his psyche that it's almost to the detriment of the film in its first half-hour (which mostly consists of exposition--it really picks up after Bane takes Batman down, when things really start to get rolling). I feel Nolan probably could have easily cut 15 minutes of this movie, mostly from that first segment. It's also probably the best live-action adaptation of Knightfall and No Man's Land we're going to get, for what that is worth. Sometimes it pays to just do a comic-book movie, and while I think it's not exactly what people were expecting with this movie given the second one, I think people who appreciated Batman Begins more than The Dark Knight will be pleased.

3. There are one or two major plot holes, leaps in logic, Deus Ex Machina. You will probably identify them pretty quickly.

4. On the other hand the second half of the movie was incredibly fun.

So. Eh. What do you think? I definitely don't think it's better than The Dark Knight but is it on par with Begins? Probably. With a little editing I could say it was better than Begins but at the moment I'd put them neck-and-neck.

The Sevenshot Kid · 07-21-2012, 05:24 PM

Bane was a force of nature in this movie. Very entertaining to watch on the screen too. You gotta admire a guy that can take an entire city hostage and pit it's citizens against each other. Sure, the means by which he achieves it might seem more comic booky but it's no worse than the microwave emitter from Begins.

The reason why this doesn't work as an allegory like The Dark Knight is the difference in the villain's motivation. The Joker wants to tear the system down to prove a point while Bane's mission is more personal.

Professor Smarmiarty · 07-21-2012, 05:34 PM

This movie was so bad it turned me mormon.

The Sevenshot Kid · 07-21-2012, 06:01 PM

That sounds like a winning endorsement.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche · 07-21-2012, 06:02 PM

Planning on seeing it sometime next week. Since the actual movie doesn't really have all that commentary on Occupy the trailers were hinting at did it seem like they added any relatively out of place scenes just so they could be put on the trailers?

Magus · 07-21-2012, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Smarmiarty

This movie was so bad it turned me mormon.

But they still got your money! THE PLAN WORKED

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Resh

Planning on seeing it sometime next week. Since the actual movie doesn't really have all that commentary on Occupy the trailers were hinting at did it seem like they added any relatively out of place scenes just so they could be put on the trailers?

No, I think it was more just taking them out of context combined with people's interpretation of what they were seeing, which then fed back into the ad-campaign.

For example (minor spoilers, if you have seen the trailers, I think you are safe) when Bane's men attack the stock exhange it is merely a plot device. It has nothing to do with a commentary on capitalism like you might think when it is shown in conjunction with the later scenes involving the looting of the houses of the rich, which is closer to being part of an allegory at that point than a mere plot device. But the trailers try and make it look like these scenes are connected to one another thematically.

Intern Nin · 07-21-2012, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Smarmiarty

This movie was so bad it turned me mormon.

And now you can't drink or smoke or shoot yourself up full of... I don't know what kind of drugs you use. Heroin? Meth? Your own special New Zealand designer drug with trace amounts of kiwi liver and vegemite?

Point is, we all win.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche · 07-21-2012, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus

For example (minor spoilers, if you have seen the trailers, I think you are safe) when Bane's men attack the stock exhange it is merely a plot device. It has nothing to do with a commentary on capitalism like you might think when it is shown in conjunction with the later scenes involving the looting of the houses of the rich, which is closer to being part of an allegory at that point than a mere plot device. But the trailers try and make it look like these scenes are connected to one another thematically.

Works for me.

Professor Smarmiarty · 07-21-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus

But they still got your money! THE PLAN WORKED

No they didn't- you forget I'm a homeless vagrant who doesn't have that kind of cinema monies.
Somebody bought me a ticket- probably to listen to me bitch about it afterwards.

Also this movie was pretty in your face with political commentary- I think Magus wandered into a showing of Ice Age 4.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche · 07-21-2012, 06:26 PM

Something tells me they don't draw much distinction between your money and your friends money.

07-21-2012, 05:01 PM	#1
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	The Dark Knight Rises I got some mixed feelings on this one. Let's go over it: 1. Unlike the Dark Knight which seemed to focus on greater thematic elements or social commentary, this movie is pretty much just a Batman movie through-and-through. The trailers are basically lies--there's no real anti-capitalist or anti-socialist rhetoric in this movie, nothing really resembling a comment on Occupy Wall Street or the Recession or whatever. In fact the class warfare element is probably about the same or less prevalent than it even was in Batman Begins. All we really get here is some acknowledgement that there are some poor people in the city, and...that's about it. There's one or two other scenes that fit into this "theme", but it's so thin and basically absent that I think it was almost tacked on as an afterthought. It falls to the wayside pretty quickly. Sure, Bane makes a couple of speeches, sets up a kangaroo court, does his "breaking out of the Bastille" thing...but it basically has nothing to really do with an allegory. It's to torture Bruce. Bane says as much before even doing it, and the specter of the nuclear bomb basically puts the nail in the coffin of any real symbolism. I wish Bane HAD fulfilled the promise of the trailers in creating a real dystopia, but what actually happens is much more by-the-numbers and driven more by character-motivation. For instance, in my opinion, Bane breaking the prisoners out of jail is more about the fact that he was a prisoner, not really because of class warfare, whereas the commercials make it look like this is part of his "revolution". It's really just part of his plan to destroy Gotham and mentally torture Bruce. 2. Of course, failing to do another allegory might be for the best. Then we don't have to argue over it. Now, as a film about Batman, I think it excels. This movie is pretty deeply involved with the character. There is such an indepth exploration of his psyche that it's almost to the detriment of the film in its first half-hour (which mostly consists of exposition--it really picks up after Bane takes Batman down, when things really start to get rolling). I feel Nolan probably could have easily cut 15 minutes of this movie, mostly from that first segment. It's also probably the best live-action adaptation of Knightfall and No Man's Land we're going to get, for what that is worth. Sometimes it pays to just do a comic-book movie, and while I think it's not exactly what people were expecting with this movie given the second one, I think people who appreciated Batman Begins more than The Dark Knight will be pleased. 3. There are one or two major plot holes, leaps in logic, Deus Ex Machina. You will probably identify them pretty quickly. 4. On the other hand the second half of the movie was incredibly fun. So. Eh. What do you think? I definitely don't think it's better than The Dark Knight but is it on par with Begins? Probably. With a little editing I could say it was better than Begins but at the moment I'd put them neck-and-neck. __________________ The Valiant Review

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07-21-2012, 05:34 PM	#3
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	This movie was so bad it turned me mormon.