Legend of Korra; Book two trailer

[shiney]

What POS said is pretty much exactly what I got out of it. He used a movement that was gaining steam to further his own ends and they were drawing parallels between that and the early industrial revolution / rise of the Nazi party around the first world war. It's not that he believed, or even cared that non-benders were oppressed, they were tools in his own quest.

A lot of the other criticisms I feel are valid though. Every romantic arc was rushed and in my opinion unnecessary at least at this stage of the show. It felt like the producers got involved and said "Yeah we need a romantic arc, so put that in."

I just didn't like the pacing. Given the enormous success of ATLA, I cannot fathom why Nickelodeon thought "The first series was fantastic and super profitable with over 60 episodes in total!! Let's cut the new show down to ten episodes."

Even if it was intended to be a mini-series from the get-go, it was really poorly executed and when it ended with "Super #1 ultra happy endings and bad guys are gone 4lyfe" I was like

:|

[Ryong]

My issue with the pacing IS THAT THE GODDAMN TOURNAMENT WENT ON FOREVER

[Lumenskir]

It was pretty plainly inspired by the rise of the Nazi party, with economic strife being used as motivation to scapegoat a particular group that is perceived to have a social and economic advantage that ultimately doesn't exist in a rise to power over an early industrialized state led by a charismatic speaker with an end goal of genetic purity through violent means.

That's a nice intent, but it doesn't really reflect what they actually showed.

Or, to put it another way, The Protocols of Zion was a fabrication so that a minority outside group with no actual power or real influence could be scapegoated. It's not like the shtetl's were capable of sending out strike forces after Hitler's first public rally.

I feel like that misunderstanding and the expecations that came from it is the root of a lot of people's issues with the portrayal of the equalists.

And the fact that the misunderstanding was pretty much entirely caused by their mishandling the writing. "Artistic Intent" isn't some magic gloss that can erase how they actually presented things*

*See: Benders being in all the positions of power, Benders having more opportunities for jobs, etc. Also, not for nothing, but if you're going for a Hitler allegory, maybe try to come up with a way to resolve the conflict other than the fascistic ideal of Might Making Right.

It doesn't help that Nick probably could only let them be so overt with the "Amon is a Hitler allegory" thing.

Given the enormous success of ATLA, I cannot fathom why Nickelodeon thought "The first series was fantastic and super profitable with over 60 episodes in total!! Let's cut the new show down to ten episodes."

I look forward to the day when we actually give cartoon writers the respect of holding them to their own mistakes, rather than coddling them by blaming the boogeyman.

My issue with the pacing IS THAT THE GODDAMN TOURNAMENT WENT ON FOREVER

Seriously, the 18 seconds Iroh spent playing soccer with those earthbending kids in Ba Sing Se had more fun and utilization of bending than stationary bending pong all of pro-bending.

[shiney]

Originally Posted by Lumenskir

I look forward to the day when we actually give cartoon writers the respect of holding them to their own mistakes, rather than coddling them by blaming the boogeyman.

Got it, it's entirely the writer's fault and the producers that mandated a fixed number of episodes were entirely unrelated. Glad you cleared that up for me, before I went and got all confused thinking that the writers had 100% creative control over a lucrative franchise.

e: Like, I'm dissatisfied with the writing too. But this is not a story that was written for a short series. Pacing was an issue because there was a lot more pushed into the limited number of episodes. I have a feeling there was a fleshed story that had to be cut back and sacrifices made. They did an okay job with it, I am left dissatisfied with a lot of the interactions, but much of that simply feels because it was rushed rather than poorly designed. And that to me feels like an issue on the end of the producers rather than writers.

[Lumenskir]

Got it, it's entirely the writer's fault and the producers that mandated a fixed number of episodes were entirely unrelated.

I tell you I'm giving you enough money to write a 12 chapter novella, which I will then publish. You agree to write a 12-chapter novella.

You then turn in a 12-chapter novella that is disappointing. You blame it on the fact that it was only allowed to be 12-chapters long.

Who is in the wrong?

But this is not a story that was written for a short series. Pacing was an issue because there was a lot more pushed into the limited number of episodes. I have a feeling there was a fleshed story that had to be cut back and sacrifices made. They did an okay job with it, I am left dissatisfied with a lot of the interactions, but much of that simply feels because it was rushed rather than poorly designed. And that to me feels like an issue on the end of the producers rather than writers.

Again, this would make a lot of sense to blame the producers for if they were at all coy about the chances of the 12 episode order turning into 20+.* That is not at all what happened here. The writers were given 12 episodes, knew all along they would only get 12 episodes, and wrote a story that was not fit for 12 episodes. Nick had nothing to do with their inability to write a story that fit into the order they were given and accepted.

*See pretty much every post season 2 season of Chuck.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Lumenskir

I tell you I'm giving you enough money to write a 12 chapter novella, which I will then publish. You agree to write a 12-chapter novella.

You then turn in a 12-chapter novella that is disappointing. You blame it on the fact that it was only allowed to be 12-chapters long.

Is... that how it works? I don't think I've heard of a studio coming to the creators and saying "This is what we want." The creators put together a pitch or script and the studio gives them permission to do something with it. The way I saw it, they put together a script for a series of Avatar the blank Airbender and Nick said for no obvious reason that no, you won't get a full season. So they had to cut things down to fit.

I don't know if you've ever gone over the limit on an essay or speech, but cutting things out when you realize they won't fit is pretty hard. All the stuff you've put time and effort into, stuff you've imagined going so damn well there's no way we can cut this it will be awesome Especially when you're dealing with a work created by multiple people "We have to cut this" "How can you even say that this is the best part" . It really might seem better to just cut down on everything to try and make all the things you wanted fit.

[Lumenskir]

Is... that how it works? I don't think I've heard of a studio coming to the creators and saying "This is what we want." The creators put together a pitch or script and the studio gives them permission to do something with it. The way I saw it, they put together a script for a series of Avatar the blank Airbender and Nick said for no obvious reason that no, you won't get a full season.

You're right in that there is an initial pitch, but the pitch is basically the outline of the world/characters/general plot. Normally, writers don't write an entire season out on spec* and then cut it down to the amount of episodes they were actually paid for, they write an outline for the pitch, get the episode order, and then get paid to write out the rest of the episodes.

*A spec script is one you write when you don't have a deal to actually write it.

All the stuff you've put time and effort into, stuff you've imagined going so damn well there's no way we can cut this it will be awesome

Yeah, it's a common problem writers face.* The good ones prioritize.

*Google "kill your babies"

[shiney]

That's my main argument. I think it was designed as a 20 episode, they were given 12, and to still get the story through they made a lot of sacrifices and had to rush things.

THAT SAID

COULD HAVE DONE WIHTOUT PRO BENDING ENTIRELY

[Azisien]

I'm torn because removing the major of the pro bending scenes could have freed up more room to fix the pacing issues, but from a spectacle point of view, I also really enjoyed the pro bending stuff a lot. Oh well! What's done is done. There is only forward.

[POS Industries]

Originally Posted by Lumenskir

*See: Benders being in all the positions of power, Benders having more opportunities for jobs, etc. Also, not for nothing, but if you're going for a Hitler allegory, maybe try to come up with a way to resolve the conflict other than the fascistic ideal of Might Making Right.

Except for the fact that the wealthy elite were non-benders, the city council had been historically shown to be inclusive of non-benders and were more of an issue with Republic City being ruled by the outside nations with no input from the citizenry, and most of the bending-specific job opportunities were hella exploitative including professional sports, which was only lucrative to the owners. And I mean we all know Hitler's story in real life had such a peaceful resolution, it's crazy that it ended in violence in this story.

It's like we shouldn't have been buying into a cartoon supervillain's rhetoric or something.

I look forward to the day when we actually give cartoon writers the respect of holding them to their own mistakes, rather than coddling them by blaming the boogeyman.

I look forward to the day that we don't hold children's cartoon writers to unreasonable expectations and can recognize a show's flaws without swearing blood vengeance.

Seriously, the 18 seconds Iroh spent playing soccer with those earthbending kids in Ba Sing Se had more fun and utilization of bending than stationary bending pong all of pro-bending.

Agreed. Pro bending sucked.