Metal Gear The Soild Ground Pains Zero Five Rising The Backdown

[Bells]

Between Naomi, Meryl, Boss, Para Medic, Eva and Paz... while the man are out punching each other in the nuts in an eternal loop of non-ending dick-punchery they are... pretty much... setting the wheels of the world in motion with their actions... and sacrifice in some cases.

Surely you have your B cast of the Beauties, Sniper Wolf and Mistral...

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Ryong

...But then again, she's also not underage, she's aware that she looks younger than she is and uses that as part of her fake identity.

Like with Nowi from Fire Emblem, claiming that a character is in fact "older than she looks" as a justification to include sexual content with a character who legitimately appears underage is creepy as hell.

...But yes, presumably Paz is actually approximately 24 years old when Peace Walker happens. She's just pretending to be younger. I just don't think that counts for anything, because instead of doing all that convoluted bullshit Kojima could've just concocted a character who actually looked her age.

Anyway, I'm working on a long-ass "Women of Metal Gear" synopsis but that's going to take me a while longer, I'm still only about halfway into MGS2.

[BitVyper]

Like with Nowi from Fire Emblem, claiming that a character is in fact "older than she looks" as a justification to include sexual content with a character who legitimately appears underage is creepy as hell.

Much as I find loli icky and creepy and all that, you have to be a little bit careful with this logic or you start getting into the opposite problem like what happened with obscenity laws in Australia and small boobs (although it was actually a LITTLE more complex than that). Much as I find the whole thing gross and don't even really like talking about it, I have to kind of make myself remember that they aren't real people and be okay with it at least as long as the narrative isn't going on about how hot it is that she looks like a child. Because that happens, and at that point fuck you, I'm gonna talk about how gross it is. But for a character just looking like a child, yeah it's lolicon bait and there's no point pretending it isn't, but going against it too hard is attacking people who are mostly harmless, and shaming anyone who happens to have that body type, because once again we're making everything about a female character come down to whether or not her body type is acceptable.

The main thing is, I don't think lolicon is contributing to any kind of systemic child abuse issue the way that beauty/beast bosses contribute to a culture of chauvanism. If anything, having it as an outlet probably takes some business away from actual child pornography.

[Bells]

you see... if in Peace walker Paz looked super young but her real age, or her looking young, was only mentioned in like... a guide book released after the game... or something like that... or even the game's manual... then i would call bullshit on that. Because she is a character in fiction and it's not ''Paz look 16 within the plot'' it's ''her creator wrote her looking 16, but he explained somewhere else that she is not''. That's different.

But they actually made a point of connecting her age and look as a lore point in the plot... i mean, you can find that of poor taste or dumb design, those are absolutely fair statements to make... it's pretty much flavor text for the game world really, so it doesn't really need to be there or like that... it's just the creative vision of the designer of the game as table dressing... but i wouldn't go as far as calling it deliberately creepy y'know?


As far as the beauty and beast thing goes... the background story was that Kojima initially wanted them to be just flat out naked. And they are pretty much poster childs for shellshock as the plot explains them... in fact, their mental instability is part of their design as backdrop as to why they were turned to ''beasts''... that does not mean the whole white room thing isn't creepy though.



You see... i'm absolutely sure we will be back here to talk about Quiet once Phantom Pain releases... considering what Kojima did with Paz and how he is putting this story down, i wouldn't be surprised at all about it...

[greed]

Originally Posted by Bells

you see... if in Peace walker Paz looked super young but her real age, or her looking young, was only mentioned in like... a guide book released after the game... or something like that... or even the game's manual... then i would call bullshit on that. Because she is a character in fiction and it's not ''Paz look 16 within the plot'' it's ''her creator wrote her looking 16, but he explained somewhere else that she is not''. That's different.

But they actually made a point of connecting her age and look as a lore point in the plot... i mean, you can find that of poor taste or dumb design, those are absolutely fair statements to make... it's pretty much flavor text for the game world really, so it doesn't really need to be there or like that... it's just the creative vision of the designer of the game as table dressing... but i wouldn't go as far as calling it deliberately creepy y'know?


As far as the beauty and beast thing goes... the background story was that Kojima initially wanted them to be just flat out naked. And they are pretty much poster childs for shellshock as the plot explains them... in fact, their mental instability is part of their design as backdrop as to why they were turned to ''beasts''... that does not mean the whole white room thing isn't creepy though.



You see... i'm absolutely sure we will be back here to talk about Quiet once Phantom Pain releases... considering what Kojima did with Paz and how he is putting this story down, i wouldn't be surprised at all about it...

Making them all women was kinda off putting and terrible though. Also no MGS has never been a serious or gritty anything. It's has always been a goofy, dumb over the top spy action thing, with fantastic realist elements mixed in for flavour. The crap in MGSV is like if someone jammed I dunno audio of McClane's wife being raped by terrorists in Die Hard 2 or something. It's not just tasteless and abhorrent, it does not fit the series at all.

Also Bells I've seen video I know what's in the game.

Look if you can ignore it and enjoy the game then that's great. But it's not in anyway a good thing and the game would be better without it, and it says terrible things about Kojima as a person.

[Solid Snake]

Regarding Paz: Having just typed "Paz Metal Gear Official Art" into a Google image search, I promptly wanted to stab my eyes out with a rusty kitchen knife.

But, like, Bit: I am willing to accept that sometimes accusations of lolicon can go a little too far. I have absolutely, throughout the course of my life, met women who were 18 or older and who appeared, at first glance, to be 15 or younger. In no way would I ever advocate that all women must appear a certain way in order to pass some censorship test, that would defeat the entire purpose of creating a safe space in fiction for feminists to write female characters that were free of patriarchal societal constraints.

But Paz? Paz from Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker?
She is not that kind of example.
(And as an aside, even if she did look her asserted 'real age' of 24, I still would feel rather uncomfortable with what Snake's capable of doing with her during their creepy-as-fuck voyeuristic 'date.')

[Ryong]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Like with Nowi from Fire Emblem, claiming that a character is in fact "older than she looks" as a justification to include sexual content with a character who legitimately appears underage is creepy as hell.

It is.

But that's not exactly the deal with Paz. Nowi behaves like a child but since she's actually thousands of years old she can totally date and marry.

Paz pretends to be a idealistic, harmless, innocent 16 year old exactly because she's a spy who needs to be the least threatening possible...And she plays upon the notion that all men are perverts, I suppose.

Unfortunately, I don't know if she ever does show her true self, so yeah.

I guess I should add: I in no way support the portrayal of the Beauties and how most official art of Paz involves her wearing nothing but her underwear. That's just unnecessary sexualization.

Originally Posted by greed

Making them all women was kinda off putting and terrible though. Also no MGS has never been a serious or gritty anything. It's has always been a goofy, dumb over the top spy action thing, with fantastic realist elements mixed in for flavour. The crap in MGSV is like if someone jammed I dunno audio of McClane's wife being raped by terrorists in Die Hard 2 or something. It's not just tasteless and abhorrent, it does not fit the series at all.

In MGS3, aside from Snake's obsession with killing and eating every animal he finds, everything is handled pretty seriously. Yeah, sure, some people have magic powers, but that's just the way it is.