God Bless You, Bill Cosby

[Fifthfiend]

Locke -- I was with you on the open-mindedness in entertainment right up to the bit about waxing philosophic on the act of drinking urine from a man who, in fact, calls himself Jimmy Urine. That's pretty much where I draw the line on open-mindedness right there.

[Lycanthrope]

I am open minded, but I am also an intellectualist. The rule for slang, in my belief, is the same rule for art: know the rules before you break them. If you choose to talk one way, fine, be my guest. But be capable of speaking properly. I just see far too much connection between the people who always talk in ebonix and the people who constantly cut class, then don't go to college and get themselves stuck in a low-wage job for the rest of their life.

[Lockeownzj00]

Err, actually, he doesn't drink his piss...that was an example. He does weird things on stage, like pull out his...thing and then light himself on fire. Yeah.

If you read an entire interview, you would see they are smart people who just like to push your buttons. A lot of their songs are made to confuse and to get people angry, but not in the personal way (they don't scream "fuck god" or anything to instigate stuff). They just don't care what people think because they want to bring originality to anything and everything.

Yeah.

Ebonics? I thought that term was extinct.

I'm going to have to disagree. It's all or nothing here, man. If that's the way they talk, that's the way they talk. There are just as many eloquent assholes as there are street ones. cough tom clancy.

[Lycanthrope]

Suffice to say I disagree respectfully. I'm not making this an issue about "assholes." I'm talking about being able to communicate. Face it: how you speak lables you, more than gender, race, sexuality, or anything. The english language, like any language is one where in there is a vast degree of expressive quality, in some ways more than most languages. And speaking in slang, and only in slang, reguardless of the circumstance, is not, as you put it eloquent. To be eloquent is to be able to efficiently speak ones mind, and there are situations.

It is not all or nothing. I know people who speak in slang amongst friends but who can then sit down and write a lengthy, eloquent essay.

Allow me to put this another way. Who do you respect most on this forum? Chances are, it is someone who writes properly and has a mastery over the language. And now, how much to you respect someone who consistently uses leet-speech, garbles up their gramar, and neglects punctuation.

Its the same issue.

[Mashirosen]

Face it: how you speak lables you, more than gender, race, sexuality, or anything. The english language, like any language is one where in there is a vast degree of expressive quality, in some ways more than most languages. And speaking in slang, and only in slang, reguardless of the circumstance, is not, as you put it eloquent. To be eloquent is to be able to efficiently speak ones mind, and there are situations.

It is not all or nothing. I know people who speak in slang amongst friends but who can then sit down and write a lengthy, eloquent essay.

Allow me to put this another way. Who do you respect most on this forum? Chances are, it is someone who writes properly and has a mastery over the language. And now, how much to you respect someone who consistently uses leet-speech, garbles up their gramar, and neglects punctuation.

Its the same issue.

You mean like that?

Seriously, I'm about ready to start checking up on the quality of language used by each and every one of you guys who pulls this kind of grammatical dick-waving. Nitpicking other people's usage is the new lazy man's intellectual trump card. The sad thing is that to some degree I'm in agreement -- whether it's fair or not, proper usage of standard English is viewed in this country as a mark of superiority, and underprivileged people interested in movin' on up ignore this fact to their own detriment -- but you're not exactly making a sterling example of yourselves.

Some people have criticized what Bill Cosby said because they're concerned that, like Chris Rock, he's giving the relatively uninformed enough ammunition to imagine themselves perceptive critics of the black American experience. I'm beginning to see their point.

[AndyBloodredMage]

Locke, about what you said how a language is impossible to set in stone...
Sanscrit, a language existing a long time ago, stayed virtually unchanged for nearly a millenia. It would've stayed that way longer, but they got conquered. Impossible, huh?

[Fifthfiend]

grammatical dick-waving.

I think we've found our new line for the day.

Err, actually, he doesn't drink his piss...that was an example.

Example, shmexample, that's just not right.

[Lycanthrope]

Originally Posted by Mashirosen

You mean like that?

Seriously, I'm about ready to start checking up on the quality of language used by each and every one of you guys who pulls this kind of grammatical dick-waving. Nitpicking other people's usage is the new lazy man's intellectual trump card. The sad thing is that to some degree I'm in agreement -- whether it's fair or not, proper usage of standard English is viewed in this country as a mark of superiority, and underprivileged people interested in movin' on up ignore this fact to their own detriment -- but you're not exactly making a sterling example of yourselves.

Some people have criticized what Bill Cosby said because they're concerned that, like Chris Rock, he's giving the relatively uninformed enough ammunition to imagine themselves perceptive critics of the black American experience. I'm beginning to see their point.

I never claim to be perfect. And no, that's not exactly what I meant. Spelling and minor punctuation errors are not my top concern when posting, however, you must realize the difference between that and "1 4m teh l33t m4st3r 1 pwns j00 s0 1 4m teh r1t3," which is what I was really getting at (or close enough). I write as I speak, and since things like spelling and apostrophe's don't occur to me when speaking they don't occur to me when writing. Usually. I'd be more likely to check for such things in a term paper, of course, but... well, you get the idea.

[Illuminatus]

Locke, you have some very valid points, and I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear enough. There are exceptions to every rule, for example, I've very much enjoyed several underground rappers, and if they were the norm, instead of underground, I would have no complaints about rap.

Furthermore, until I graduated, I went to a school that was predominantly a minority school. I'm not basing my assumptions about ghetto culture on Puff Daddy's songs, I'm basing it on real life experiences, where people talk so fast or bizzarely that I'm completely lost. There are white black hispanic and asian kids who all perpetuate EXACTLY what I said about the ghetto culture. They were always inconsiderate to me, each other, teachers, and any one else who happened to disagree with them. I spent a good deal of time talking to many of them and could not identify any driving force behind their lives, not ambition, or hope, or achievement, just benjamins and bling bling.

I try not to make statements based on speculation. This one is not.

Oh and Mashirosen, I'm sorry about my "grammatical dick-waving".

Plus, you're very right about, well, rich suburban white folks coming out of the woodwork to criticise black people. While I like what Cosby said, it had as much negative impact as positive.

[Royalspork]

did you know that NAACP is sueing my school system and go cosby