Mafia: Basic

[P-Sleazy]

If you really want me to defend myself Silly Kitty then fine.

Thats a false accusation made my Mesden when she said that I said "Kill me and you'll see" I never said it, nor did I mean to imply it if I did. I already addressed this not too long ago.

Why I'm not defending myself? I also addressed this too. Its Mesden. Not the other 3 people who are bandwagoning off her "because her logic makes sense to them" and CMP who is agreeing with her but somewhat stating his own...oddly similar reasons. Mesden is known to manipulate people. It was how she got KBM lynched in //hack Mafia and probably how she got several other roles killed off in the previous mafia games. Defending against her is useless because she will only contort whatever words you have to defend yourself with against you. Thats right, she'll turn it against you.

Now that I've made this clear, she probably won't turn this against me somehow, might even remove her vote off me to look less suspicious since I've already defended myself like she's been asking me do for quite some time now. Why would she be so eagar to have me defend myself all this time and pointing it out to the town. Its a win-win for her whether I defend myself or not. If I defend myself, she just twists my words against me and has the town vote for me through manipulation. If I don't defend myself, she keeps bringing this up for the town and eventually votes for me after she beleives enough time has gone by that a few people may follow her lead.

I myself, was hoping that the town would be smart enough not to fall for her ploy and it seems like a good bit of you are being reasonable and noticing her ploy. however there are also those of you who have fallen right into her hands and have gone and sided with her.

Finally, a little bit of offense here. Mesden you are one of the greatest threats to the town, even as a townie if you continue to play this game with the mindset of a mafiate. IF you keep playing like this, you're only going to continue having us to lynch townies. If youre a townie, get with the program and be a townie. Dont try to get that inside look of a mafiate because that will only over think things, cloud your mind, and have you finding townies as mafiates.

[Ogianres]

I don't really believe some of your accusations.
First, all these things you are saying seem to only apply if Mesden is in fact scum, when we can't be certain as to whether or not she is mafia, which we can't know for certain right now. I'm going to have to FOS: B_Real. I think the only two things that are keeping me from voting for you is a gut feeling and my intense paranoia. However, your points are still valid, as is TWG's. FOS: Mesden

[Fenris]

I have to say, I mildly agree with B_real on the CmP issue, but I think that he's just looking at the same evidence that Mesden is and drawing the same conclusions.

I'm just going to throw my two cents out there. I think that neither B_real or Mesden is guilty. Although, catlover seems to change his vote whenever the winds change direction.

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Catlover's first voting post.

He voted for Mesden on the grounds that if she wasn't against the town now, she would be later. This much you can tell from reading his post. However, all he would have had to do was check the first post to see if there was a cult. He didn't. This vote was done after it appeared that Mesden was highly on the defensive.

Catlover's next post in the thread.

He unvoted Mesden, after being confronted with how his argument made no sense.

Once again, his very next post.

He voted for Mesden again, for FoSing B_real. I did say that she was being extreme, and I think that catlover tried to grasp that as his basis for voting for her.

His next post.

Pretty self-explanitory. He defended his actions.

The infamous false miscount.

His second unvoting of Mesden.

This time, the attention was on TWG and B_real, and not on Mesden.

Pinky of Suspicion.

Math is fishy.

To quote a crappy TV show: People lie. Numbers don't.

Voting for B_real.

This is the latest post from catlover. He says now that he agrees with Mesden entirely, even though he's tried to kill her. Twice.

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And that's all catlover has had to offer. I think he's acting way too oddly.

FoS: catlover20410

Explain yourself.

[h4x.m4g3]

I suppose I should be more active, I just haven't had anything to say.
Unvote:No Lynch
No one wants a no lynch, we've established that and moved on I know. But before I can vote, I need some more time to think.

Edit: Because FenrisWolf ninja'd me when I was deleting and re-typing and double checking post.

Vote: CatLover20410 Thanks Fenris for pointing out exactly what I've been looking for, someone who's been either
A: Shifting with the winds too much
or
B: Making, everyone look scummy.

Catlover falls under A, and I'm tired of being indecissive.

[Thundergod Cid]

Sorry for not posting in a while, I got behind on the thread and was kind of overwhelmed by the sheer mass of posts. But I'm all caught up now.

First off, I'm not sure how about B_real and Mesden right now. This whole thing between them seems more like two agressive players butting heads than any indication of scumminess. One (or both, since Mesden is involved) of them may be Mafia, but I don't yet see enough suspicious behavior from either of them to warrant a vote.

After thinking it over, I've decided to Vote: Catlover. The fact that he's changing his votes/opinions based on the current mood of the thread (as shown in Fenris's post) sounds to me like a mafiate trying to put his vote on a townie without attracting attention to himself. I'm not entirely convinced that he's scum rather than merely inexperienced, but I think he's the best lead we've got.

[Major Blood]

I dunno, all that's been said about Catlover dosen't say Mafia to me. It says "I'm bad at these games." Either way he's got to go. But since i'm allready voting for someone who falls under the same catagory, my vote stays where it is.

[Sithdarth]

Ok this post is probably not going to sound like its going somewhere but bear with me there is a point here.

Frist, lets go over a few of the common assumptions I believe every townie probably operates under. The first being that everyone, aside from themselves, is a possible threat in one way or another. Next is that the only truely conclusive proof of where someone stands is through some sort of role reveal. This could be PO, or reporter as well in this game, or straight up deaths. There is really no way to be 100% besides that. That is unless you've been getting outside information or the person admits to it publicly. Logically following the first two assumptions is that everyone is scum, as its the safest assumption, and everyone assumes you are scum. Thus, we arrive at a final assumption that no one is going to trust you, completely, without third part varification of your town aligned status.

Now given those assumptions, and the last one in particular, its safe to say actually convincing people to trust you isn't going to be easy. Further, gaining that trust by no means makes you safe from a future lynching. Nor does is that trust in anyway perminate, unless you've been proven town aligned by the PO or Reporter. Even then with lack of actual evidence the only way to gain trust is manipulation. The more covert you are the more likely it is to succeed. The fact remains it is still a form of manipulation no matter how good the intentions behind it.

The conclusion here is that calling someone out for manipulation is counter productive. Generally, if you want people to believe and support you then you are also being manipulative. Manipulation is essentially the only way to play this game until facts come to light. I guess in short just because someone has an agenda they want to get support for doesn't make them scummy in my eyes. That of course is qualified by how logical their reasoning is, and unavoidably that ties into how good they are at manipulation.

As such I am still reserving my vote. When a deadline is posted, and Newb you better not ninja me with a deadline, I shall once again tabulate you if anyone is still innactive. Then I will see if anyone has yet given me reason enough in action to vote for them. Also, despite my dislike for going with the floor there are a few people who, if they are townies, have demonstrated they might be easy to influence. These people are dangerous in the hands of the Mafia. In the absence of a greater threat they are the best option for a lynch.

[P-Sleazy]

I sense a Catlover vote comming from Sithdarth...

to Major blood, I'm bad at these games? that MAY be true, but atleast I give reasoning behind my vote. MY OWN REASONING, however flawed it may seem, I still atleast beleive in my reasoning. Catlover, on the otherhand, as has been mentioned before just goes with the flow of the thread. He has only said "I agree with such and such so I vote: such and such". That my dear friend is MUCH more dangerous to the townie cause than I or Mesden or CMP...possibly all three of us combined for that matter.

[catlover20410]

I do suck horribly at Mafia games. I have nothing resembling social skills.

Also, at first, Mesden seemed scummy. Now, however, B_real is really, REALLY starting to freak me out. He isn't even trying to defend himself, but instead just keeps pointing fingers at me. Because I'm an unstable voter. Which is true. I spend most of my time on the internetz up so late that I can't think straight.

Also, the first Mesden vote was half in jest.

[Silly Kitty]

After Catlover's post and Fenris' confirmation of my suspicion, I will now Vote: Catlover20410. I don't really think he is scummy but he is a threat to the town.