Mafia: Basic

[catlover20410]

I don't care, defense is defense.


If you guys actually think I'm a Mafiate or that I'm the SK, go ahead, kill my face off. But don't do it because I'm 'dangerous' because my votes are 'erratic'. Sheesh.

[The Wandering God]

What, so you shouldn't be help accountable for your actions?

It IS dangerous. You voted for Mesden TWICE, then voted for the person Mesden was accusing. It means that you can't be trusted.

And again, it sets a bad precedent. Being so easy to vote and change votes is NOT something that is good for the town. Discourse is.

B_real, on the other hand, has only voted once so far. And I think he walked into a trap. Set either by Mesden or CmP.

Speaking of which, where the hell is Mesden?

The Wandering God

[P-Sleazy]

Maybe she got caught on her own ploy and is hoping to dissappear into the darkness till its mostly forgotten before emerging again? Who can say. RL issues? Toilet problems? Internet gone down?

After bugging me so much for me to defend myself, I would atleast think she would atleast say SOMETHING.

[Mesden]

I'm sorry for my absence guys. I was in a fairly bad car accident and banged my head up well enough to put me in the hospital for a couple days and when I got home, I wasn't up to doing anything computer related.

I'll go back over the thread and read up on things. Again, sorry about the absence.

------------------------------------------------------------------

*Sigh*

To kick it off…

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

Maybe she got caught on her own ploy and is hoping to dissappear into the darkness till its mostly forgotten before emerging again? Who can say. RL issues? Toilet problems? Internet gone down?

After bugging me so much for me to defend myself, I would atleast think she would atleast say SOMETHING.

Yeaaahhh… Sorry, but I will NEVER fade into the background. That takes away the point of the game again. Anytime you see my name alive on a Mafia list, expect that game to be moving right along and me to have a good few posts.


Next…

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

If you really want me to defend myself Silly Kitty then fine.

Thats a false accusation made my Mesden when she said that I said "Kill me and you'll see" I never said it, nor did I mean to imply it if I did. I already addressed this not too long ago.

Heh, sorry if I misread it. It just REALLY seemed that way to me. Also, that did not influence me voting for you, honestly. Though it did enforce it a bit more.

Originally Posted by B_Real

Why I'm not defending myself? I also addressed this too. Its Mesden. Not the other 3 people who are bandwagoning off her "because her logic makes sense to them" and CMP who is agreeing with her but somewhat stating his own...oddly similar reasons. Mesden is known to manipulate people. It was how she got KBM lynched in //hack Mafia and probably how she got several other roles killed off in the previous mafia games. Defending against her is useless because she will only contort whatever words you have to defend yourself with against you. Thats right, she'll turn it against you.

Mhhm. Let’s keep reading, shall we?

Originally Posted by B_Real

Now that I've made this clear, she probably won't turn this against me somehow, might even remove her vote off me to look less suspicious since I've already defended myself like she's been asking me do for quite some time now. Why would she be so eagar to have me defend myself all this time and pointing it out to the town. Its a win-win for her whether I defend myself or not. If I defend myself, she just twists my words against me and has the town vote for me through manipulation. If I don't defend myself, she keeps bringing this up for the town and eventually votes for me after she beleives enough time has gone by that a few people may follow her lead.

Uh huh… So, you defend your reason for not defending yourself and then state the reasons behind MOST actions I could make? Look who’s being manipulative now…

Originally Posted by B_Real

I myself, was hoping that the town would be smart enough not to fall for her ploy and it seems like a good bit of you are being reasonable and noticing her ploy. however there are also those of you who have fallen right into her hands and have gone and sided with her.

Alright, stop making it like I’m some ultimate evil and you’re helpless to defend yourself. You’re NEVER helpless. I mean…Psycho Mantis…*Shudder*

Originally Posted by B_Real

Finally, a little bit of offense here. Mesden you are one of the greatest threats to the town, even as a townie if you continue to play this game with the mindset of a mafiate. IF you keep playing like this, you're only going to continue having us to lynch townies. If youre a townie, get with the program and be a townie. Dont try to get that inside look of a mafiate because that will only over think things, cloud your mind, and have you finding townies as mafiates.

Alright. It seems my “I think like a mafiate” words were taken a bit to heart and a bit out of the meant context.

I’ll refer back to one of Sith’s posts (Excuse my lack of searching for it) that ALL this game is manipulation. Just different kinds of it.

My main experience is with Mafia manipulation, so, I DO take some thought process about that. Though, I’m fairly sure my plan isn’t “Manipulate the town into killing off their best players while we weed them out as well while concealing our innocence.”

BUT, I will not lie and say I don’t manipulate words and posts to my advantage. Anyone would if they could do it when the person is VOTING for you so quickly. Town or no, you want what you’re saying to be more meaningful, especially if that is against someone you have genuine suspicion for.

I’ve seen people calling me “Too Smart” to do something or just calling me smart in general. Thanks for that, but never, EVER rule out a possibility of someone doing something. Of all people, ME!

Now, I will unvote: B_Real . He said why he didn’t defend himself. Obviously he is scared of me. But now I wish for him to respond to the accusations I set forth, not just why he didn’t defend himself. If you REALLY want me to, I will go back in the thread and quote the post. But, I’m tired and it’s taking a lot out of me to do this.

On to the Catlove situation.

You people give the shoddiest reasons. Or atleast most of you. I’m glad someone had the sense to say that a random voter is NOT a threat. It will never be. And I’ll defend IHMN’s voting style the same way I did in SP. Don’t condemn someone for their style of play, do it for what they say with it. (This is an opinion, though)

If everyone liked to random vote or bandwagon and I stayed the same, would you vote me for it? Yes. You would. The same logic applies to IHMN and a bit towards Catlover.

Now, he DOES set a bad precedent. I believe that TWG said this first (Sorry if I’m wrong about this). I agree wholeheartedly with this. The veil possibility is something to note as well. Also, I believe I said this WAY earlier on. Something like using inexperience for an excuse about how you vote.

I’ll not vote for Catlover out of SHEER belief of his lack of game mechanics (Or etiquette to be more precise, as he has followed the rules as far as I can tell and mechanics is a bit of a broad concept.)

The only people I consider vote worthy so far are CmP and B_Real. Catlover, he’s half and half with me.

And so my belated post ends…

[The Wandering God]

Actually Mesden if you could just answer some of the points in this post, I'd feel much more comfortable. I still haven't given up on examining you and CmP, and your response would be appreciated.

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

Sure. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, GO!

Originally Posted by The_Wandering_God

So basically you are getting on his back because he voted without proper reason? Well hell, let's just lynch Catlover, who as of now, has changed his vote, what? 3 times? 4 times? And his reasons for voting are paper thin at best?

No, sorry, I don't buy that. And trying to compound via his lack of defense? Which was probably closer to "Well, boy, I screwed up." I don't think he is defending himself, because well, it's hard to use the "I screwed up" defense, as that seems to get a person killed pretty quickly. Whether they were innocent or not. (I've seen it both ways, from my perspective anyway.)

I voted for him for the REASON why he did it. And then my other accusations that went without a viable defense for. (This already settled until his next post)

Originally Posted by TWG

Wait. Trying to make himself useful is grounds for hanging in your opinion? WTF? You ARE thinking like a mafiate. And in this case, it's dangerous to the town.

Not for BEING helpful, per se. But the fact that he ducked most of everything I said and came back with other info. Possibly to take the NEGATIVE attention from him. Go back and I believe I stated this. The other possibilities being I didn’t say this or you missed that point.

Originally Posted by TWG

The reverse of that is, you have a nice bed of posts to go back to. My first game, I had trouble with the mafiates with high post counts. It's much easier to find evidence if there are fewer posts to examine. You (or any high poster mafiates) are much more able to hide behind a veil of words.

But I also have a slew of posts that can be brought up AGAINST me. You never know when a good idea in the past can com back to hurt you,

Originally Posted by TWG

This isn't an accusation that post count reflects anything, it's actually saying the opposite. Being loud doesn't make you one way or the other. Especially if they are as smart as you.

Um…thank you?

Originally Posted by TWG

"You think it well to keep out of the limelight,..." XD Ahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahha XD

Well, this was SHEERLY off the context of your post, mind you. Go back and read it and you’ll see why. Not off YOUR style, necessarily.

Originally Posted by TWG

Oh, that was a good laugh. Anyway, thinking like a mafiate only helps it actually gives some insight into the way the mafiates are playing. But that is your way of seeming useful to the town, isn't it? Like we couldn't figure out what the mafia was doing without you? (Probably not, I'll admit. But it is an issue I wanted to put out there and be blunt about. I hope you prefer me being honest.)

Addressed, I believe.

Originally Posted by TWG

The thing is, you catalyzed almost exclusively around yourself. Most of the time, it's two people, one starting and the other picking it up. In this case, it was CmP. THAT is why I'm suspicous of you. One, or both, of you isn't right here.

You, for laying a trap. (Seriously, defending yourself early, then accusing someone who goes for ya? You were drawing yourself into the open. You said you expected someone to accuse you eventually because of it. That kind of comes off as egotisitcal though. You are expecting that? Are your fellow townies so very petty like that? (Again, sorry for the harsh words, but I wish I could plut it less bluntly. I'd also like to state that I wouldn't have made an issue out of it.)) Him, for walking into so obvious a trap. (Up to acknowledgeing it at as a "joke". Which, as he well knows, can be very dangerous for either party.)

Yes, yes they are. Since it was brought up SO many times, I believed and still believe it would have been brought up. Also, it wasn’t so much a trap as something I knew needed addressing and I knew I would get a good bit of response to. I didn’t QUITE expect a vote for it so easily.

Originally Posted by TWG

To me, it doesn't. What possible point could it serve but to make the first person who accuses you look like a heel? Even if they didn't use that line of thinking, you could say they were. It's basically setting up a trap. Again, you are thinking like a mafiate. Is that really best for the town, that way?

Mafia thinking addressed and the trap issue as well.

Originally Posted by TWG

No, you were defending yourself. CmP was the first one to vote for you. But now you aren't even focusing on him, you are on B_real. Of course, if he wasn't guilty, then you could always snake it back to CmP. Or conversly, he could say you manipulated it from the start, and get you hung. This is why I'm suspicious of both of you.

Quite. Though, I DID state the first Anti-CmP points, I believe. And just for that very reason. I’m waiting for B_Real as of now before I tell you who is on the top of my list. B_Real gave his reasons why not to defend, I responded and nothing can (Well, should, really) be decided until he replies.

Originally Posted by TWG

A show of words is just that. Heh. Don't know how I feel about this yet, to be honest.

I can see you love the game too. ^^

Originally Posted by TWG

Yet you are basing your thinking on last games. Mesden, we don't exist in a vacuum. But let's be honest here, if IHateMakingNames was in this game, how long do you think he would last? Why are former town roles are almost always the first night kill? It shouldn't affect things, but it does. By saying, "This is how I acted before", how is that really any different than saying "I've been around the block a few times." Experience is intimidating.

I HATE the automatic suspicion of IHMN, mind you. And I didn’t ever consider my intimidation until B_Real brought it up. Do I really intimidate people? How so? I’m a known, manipulative player for sure. But that really doesn’t warrant being intimidated, does it?

Originally Posted by TWG

Yes you have. Like I said before, "back up plan". Isn't it nice when you have mulitple targets. (Yes, I'm aware of the hypocrisy there, but then again, I didn't start this, now did I?)

“Targets”. Right, multiple targets. No, I didn’t expect most of what has happened. I didn’t expect CmP to go through with the joke AFTER I stated my defense. He did. I did not expect B_Real to ACTUALLY VOTE off something as baseless as he did. I didn’t expect CmP’s pseudo-support of me this whole time.

But it happened. And it’s damned suspicious to me. That gives me two people on my list that I believe over all others are scum. So yes, I have two targets. But so do you. CmP and I to be precise. We just go about our suspicions differently. Hypocrisy, you stated it already. I hope what I said answers you.

Originally Posted by TWG

Now, I looked back, but couldn't see your vote. Especially since you said at the start of the message, " I've been dangerously close to voting for him this whole time." I don't remember you voting for him. (Newb's vote summary is really obtuse. Sorry, Newb.) If you could kindly point it out, I'd appreciate it.

Here ya go. Middle of the post.

Originally Posted by TWG

Again, part of your accusations are that he isn't defending himself. How do you defend yourself from accusations of being quiet? By being useful. At the very least, I think that's what all those numbers are supposed to do.

No, it’s not JUST being quiet. It’s being quiet about being accused. He was accused, went quiet and accused for that as well.

Originally Posted by TWG

I had people get suspcious of me when I was loud, but didn't get defensive about it. I merely acknowledged it. (And yeah, someone else entirely said it sounded suspicous who ended up being a townie, so there ya go.)

I don’t happen to live in New York and have a red beard, do I?

I think that’s all of it pertaining to me. If I missed a part of it, please tell me. I’m still a bit out of it and assistance on what I missed would be greatly appreciated. I ALWAYS respond if I know about it.

EDIT: A quoting problem. Sorry about that

[Mondt]

Do you guys know how undercover cops work? They think like criminals. They dress like them, they act like them, they have teh same mindset. In the end, are they criminals? Do they end up robbing the local 7-11? No. They arrest the guys that do. Why is it that when Mesden thinks like a mafiate, she is instantly a mafiate?

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by sk3L3t0n

Do you guys know how undercover cops work? They think like criminals. They dress like them, they act like them, they have teh same mindset. In the end, are they criminals? Do they end up robbing the local 7-11? No. They arrest the guys that do. Why is it that when Mesden thinks like a mafiate, she is instantly a mafiate?

Well, she isn't.

But, it leads people to think that she doesn't know how to play as a good guy, and as such, will twist innocent's words against them.

I agree with you, though.

EDIT TO CLARIFY: By "Well, she isn't" I meant that just because she thinks like a mafiate, that doesn't make her one. That is how I clarify that post.

[Silly Kitty]

It is a bit different when you think and act like a mafiate. As a mafiate you set traps unlike a PO would. A regular townie may not be able to get out of these traps even if he is innocent.

[The Wandering God]

Originally Posted by sk3L3t0n

Do you guys know how undercover cops work? They think like criminals. They dress like them, they act like them, they have teh same mindset. In the end, are they criminals? Do they end up robbing the local 7-11? No. They arrest the guys that do. Why is it that when Mesden thinks like a mafiate, she is instantly a mafiate?

Noooooo, undercovercops are undercover to infiltrate criminal organizations. Noone can secretly join the mafia. Anything that game breaking had better be mentioned in the rules.

Mes thinking like a mafiate though, doesn't really help though. Mafiates only need to make somone else LOOK guilty. As a matter of fact, they have to do so, in spite of them knowing that person is innocent.

Townies have to find someone guilty out of a crowd of innocents.

I'm trying to say that the play style really doesn't translate well.

And having put some thought into it, I'm now more suspicous of CmP. I know he said he was basically making a joke, but it would have been better to vote for her when she wasn't in the game, or died the first night or something. THEN it would obviously be a joke.

Now he has a reasonable excuse for his actions, but really, I'm not too sure how I feel about him trying to use that as a reason for voting. (Voting is serious business, as he well knows.)

And now Skeletons post that actually sounds like something a serial killer would say (infiltrating another group, only to turn on them), combined with his current avatar and title of "face of a killer", is influencing me in a very superficial sort of way.

Anyway, isn't it supposed to be night soon?

The Wandering God