Another Big Big Thread of Religious Discussion

[neyo the king]

Well, the Discussion... Area(?) is big and scary. The above posts (all of them) are tl; so I dr.

Then why am I here? Well, to put it simply, I have just recently come to turms with my beliefs, and so I thought, "What the hell, might as well."

I am a Born-Again Atheist. Since I didn't read the rest of the thread, I'll assume that someone else is, and has explained what it is. But, just in case, what it means is that I used to be a Christian, with the saving and the baptizing and everything, but then I switched to Atheism for whatever reason.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be leaving before the Discussion turns to me, and I'll be expected to answer. You guys are to serious around here...

[Darth SS]

Y'know, I saw the update and I was like "Fuck YEAH! I didn't kill the thread!"

But...no. I killed it. I killed it dead.

Cuff me.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

Originally Posted by Darth SS

Y'know, I saw the update and I was like "Fuck YEAH! I didn't kill the thread!"

But...no. I killed it. I killed it dead.

Cuff me.

Actually if it makes you feel better, I blame Sesshoumaru for not responding.

And Archbio a bit, simply because argued with me. (Just kidding Arch. I love you.)

[neyo the king]

So... I guess we need a new topic, then? To get things rolling again...

Oh, I know! Have gays and churches and the conflict thereof been talked about? That sounds religious and debate-y and stuff.

Yeah, there you go. Knock yourselves out.

[42PETUNIAS]

I don't think so, at least, not in detail. I would like to hear a member of the forums explain why gay people are going to hell, though.

[Mesden]

Originally Posted by 42PETUNIAS

I don't think so, at least, not in detail. I would like to hear a member of the forums explain why gay people are going to hell, though.

They aren't.

Atleast, if the Bible has anything to say about it.

[Toast]

What really gets me is that often people use Sodom and Gomorrah as evidence and yet conveniently forget that Lot, the supposedly most virtuous man in that city, was perfectly willing to give up his two virgin daughters to gang rape just so he could have some peace and quiet in his own home.

[Ryanderman]

Originally Posted by 42PETUNIAS

I don't think so, at least, not in detail. I would like to hear a member of the forums explain why gay people are going to hell, though.

I'd like to try jumping in here, though my veiw likely isn't the sterotypical view of a Christian on the matter. I've always been hugely irritated at people who hate gays, and condemn them to hell. But I also don't like it when people try to say that being gay is perfectly ok by the Bible, and it doesn't have anything to say on the matter at all. Both sides are misunderstanding the issue.

I don't think the Bible does ever explicitly say that homosexuality is a sin, except in places in the old testament, like Leviticus, as part of Laws for Israel that were replaced by Christ. What the Bible does clearly do, is define Godly marriage as a covenant between a man, a woman, and God. It also states that sex is something that was created for, and should be reserved for marriage. It's not supposed to be used just to procreate, and it shouldn't be fun, as some people oddly argue, but I think it was intended as a celebration of the covenant of marriage.

Thus, any sex outside the marriage covenant is against God's plan and therefore a sin. And since two men or two women cannot have a Godly marriage by definition, any sex they have is sin. At least that's how I see it.

So by that definition, gay sex is on the same level as sex outside of marriage, so if heterosexuals who aren't Christian don't go around feeling guilty about having sex, I don't see what should be different about homosexuals.

Everyone sins. Quite often. And in the grand scheme of things, one sin is as good as another. I find it quite disconcerting, but according to the Bible, as far as your eternal destination is concerned, lying about being sick to skip work is as bad as mass murder. So for someone who isn't a Christian, it shouldn't make any difference if they're gay or not, and Christians shouldn't get riled up about it.

For a Christian though, it's wrong to continue to have gay sex, because of the command not to continue in a lifestyle of sin. Christians still sin all the time like everyone else, but if someone were to continue a homosexual lifestyle as a Christian, it would show that they were not trying to live a Godly life, but were still embracing sin.

So I find it stupid for Christians to try to fight against gay marriage. I don't see why people in homosexual relationships can't have the same government granted privileges and rights that people in heterosexual relationships can't. That has no bearing on religion. And if a church wants to marry gay people, I don't see why they can't. I would feel that they were going against what the Bible says on the matter, but that's their choice, not mine. I only have a say in actions of the church of which I am a member.

Do my opinions on this make me a homophobe or a bigot?

[ZAKtheGeek]

I don't think the Bible does ever explicitly say that homosexuality is a sin, except in places in the old testament, like Leviticus, as part of Laws for Israel that were replaced by Christ.

And Jesus said:

Originally Posted by Matthew 5:17-20

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

[Ryanderman]

Ok, I oversimplified. Yes, the Law still exists, and everything that was wrong according to the Law is wrong now. But the whole point of the Law was that it was impossible for a human to follow it fully. One mistake, one instant of a wrong thought, and you break the Law completely. It is entirely impossible to live perfectly according to the Law. It was created to illustrate to humanity the need for Christ. Christ fulfills the Law. He satisfies its requirements in our place. That is the whole reason for us to believe him, and accept his gift. By doing so, we place the requirement of following the Law on him, and we're in the clear. And that sounded more preachy than I wanted to. Here are a couple verses that say what I mean.

Originally Posted by Romans 8:1-2

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Originally Posted by Galatians 2:16

knowing that a man is not justified by the Works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be Saved!"

So yah, the Law still exists, but Christians are not bound to it. And those that aren't Christians have already broken it, so what's the point of being angry at people who break it more by having sex?