Pokemon Umbral Discussion 14: Discussion Thread Player Character Conspiracy #1

[Dracorion]

Impact got all of one scratch on Shizuka. And only because she was momentarily distracted by the sword about to fall on Impact's head.

Pierce got one cut (accidental, but still worth about as much as Impact's scratch), a kick and a shoulder slam.

Score: Pierce 3, Impact 1.

[Menarker]

"That's stupid and you're stupid in association!"

:3

Anyhow, AB didn't seem to protest at all.

But the main thing I protest about your statement was the "requirement to have self-damage unhealable by items!" Belly Drum was meant to be risky and I decided that in order to deal with the risk, I would substitute a different pokemon by the use of Follow-Me which was used exactly as it was meant to be. In this case, Togekiss. I invested a move for the sake of support, and it turned out to be the perfect time to use it. (I didn't plan this battle or know anything about the battle, so don't say I planned this all. I'm making do with what I thought to bring with me). You're basically nerfing two moves in the attempt to nerf one. The risk was there all the same. If Snorlax was targetted after using Belly Drum, then he would have been knocked out. By investing a move slot, I was allowed the option to substitute a different pokemon, but it still resulted in losing a pokemon. The entire concept of using options and giving up resources to get one more usable in the long run is a viable part of tactics!

Also, only targetting opponent's is pretty bull too. It's a perfectly viable team option and not illegal in the games either. It only doesn't show up in games often because there is no almost no cruical team battles in any games of the plot. If 2 vs 2 battles were more implemented in the games especially for the end battles, it would have seen more use as a buff option.

The Teleport thing, I can understand. If AB thinks that the buff won't stay on, then that's fine.

Anyhow, if Gem doesn't agree, I guess Renny can't send any support (well, without making use Dormond's boost first.)

[Geminex]

Landing the blow does not evidence of superior skill make.

And besides, when did Pierce connect with a kick and a shoulder slash?

Edit: And rather large response to Menarker's post coming up soon.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Landing the blow does not evidence of superior skill make.

Then what the hell does it make?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And besides, when did Pierce connect with a kick and a shoulder slash?

Sorry, shoulder slam. Right there at the end, it connected. And a kick, I think during the second turn.

[Geminex]

Anyhow, if Gem doesn't agree, I guess Renny can't send any support (well, without making use Dormond's boost first.)

He can send his mother. She should arrive quickly enough. Keep Dormond for yourself, go crazy.

I have rather a lot to do at the moment, I'll be back later, with rebuttal to Menarker, rebuttal to Drac and RP post. Drac, have Pierce act as if Impact had given above orders. You can show him deep in tactical thought, mulling over where his skills'd be best put to use, but let me give the orders, m'kay?

[Menarker]

Well, I wonder if Dormond can keep his boost if he came the old-fashioned way. Might end up a turn of delay regardless of whether it is him or Maria.

AB might end up with a day off since we're busy discussing stuff. ^^;

[Geminex]

Ok, so maybe I have one or two more minutes.
I'll mention this further in my Rebuttal, but also, I don't really want Shizuka to OHKO everything this turn. It'd be too easy, and the implications of that would be more far-reaching than you'd think. Yes, I'm sort of being a douche, jumping on more or less every advantage you get and declaring it imbalanced, but I mean well. Trust me.

[Menarker]

Just for the record, the basic uses of the moves and tactics I've used such as with Follow Me aren't really "advantages". You guys could have the same things too if your style was closer to defense or support. Most of you guys chose different things to focus on. Charlotte have pokemons that hit with power and speed along with a few tech moves focusing on cutting down foes. Pierce moves have a bit of balance along with combos like Rain Dance / Thunder. Mine was based on support, endurance and a patient build up.

Advantages would be more like upgrades that only apply to you (such as the unique benefits of the half/full demon upgrades or the Pokemon Breeder), or if AB allows the teleport thing, allowing a benefit that has no precedent in the games. Most of the stuff I've used are powerful, but also come with their own risks and they have precedents in the games.

Mind you, that this wouldn't have been possible by myself. None of my pokemons have psych up or baton pass on their move list. You chose to have all the sheer power of the Kimonos for yourself. I myself got the EEE and Dormond and everything that comes with it, even though I never planned for it. You got your own "advantages" and I got my own based on moves that were planned ahead before the circumstances were revealed.

But fine, no boosting Shizuka. Would you rather that Impact got boosted instead?

*Waits to hear the rest of your rebuttal*

[Astral Harmony]

I would like a day off yes to make my two characters in Toastburner B's signups, but thanks to Nightwish rockin' out in my ears, I feel amped enough to do both.

Impact, I'm going to warn you right now: Discord fucking hates men (she doesn't particularly care for other women, either). The only two guys she can tolerate enough to even stand near without bissecting them with her twin swords are Major Grant (military officer in Mission Three with Arceus) and Lucian (fellow mercenary in Mission Three with Palkia). Other guys had better come hoping that all they wind up in is the hospital, and not the morgue.

Anyways, I'll start posting now.

EDIT: I took a look at the RP thread and realized only Charlotte posted. Thank you, thank you, thank you, you marvelous bastards.

To show my appreciation, here's some gifts:

Hey, here's a sexy Zangoose!



More of Misty



And to finish off my gift giving, let me give you some additional tactics to try out:

Rayleen: "Certain moves change effectiveness when the morale of the enemy formation is low. Remember when Tyranitar's Roar move only scared away a Gengar temporarily in Mission Two? Well, even though I was in the hospital, I remember that, too. Anyways, if you try Roar out when the enemy formation's morale is low, you'll get far more satisfying results! What other possibilities are out there? Well, just ask Armored Bishoujo. She's the GM, after all."

Armored Bishoujo: "True dat. Combat changes on the fly all the time. There's always new strategies to unearth, and you'll never know the limits until you mention the possibility of something to me. Armored Bishoujo: I set the new standard in Pokemon battles. It's like the difference between Yu-Gi-Oh the card game and Yu-Gi-Oh the anime based on the card game."

[Geminex]

Pokemon was primarily a 1v1 game. Stats and movepools were balanced for 1v1. 2v2? More of a gimmick, I always felt. You wouldn't train a team for 2v2, at least not for competitive 2v2. So when I wonder if something's balanced or not, I usually start by looking at what role the move fullfilled in the original 1v1. What were its benefits? What were its demerits? Belly drum's role was a gamble. You were putting yourself in danger by halving your HP, but if you survived said danger, that would pay off. And I'm actually fine with your using Togekiss' follow me. You alleviated the danger for 1 round, gave Snorlax a chance to get back on its feet, so to speak. But what wouldn't have been possible, in 1v1 or two 2v2 was that you immediately removed any danger by healing Snorlax fully. That's not how it's supposed to work. In exchange for that kind of attack bonous, you're supposed to be at the mercy of sweepers and super-effective attacks. It's supposed to be a continous risk, that forces you to either waste precious time healing, or simply risk having your, now very valuable, pokemon OHKO'd. Being able to fully heal a belly-drummer the turn they use that move really removes almost all risk.

As for psych-up, again, I'm looking at what its purpose was in 1v1. It was to counter enemy over-buffing, to, once again, create a risk of sorts, and discourage teams specialized only on buffing. If we let it be used on allies, then that would turn around entirely, it'd make buffing more profitable, since highly-buffing just one pokemon would give you the ability to buff the rest of your team as well.

So, yeah, I'm almost certain that those moves weren't intended to be used the way you're using them. And considering the kind of advantages they gave you, I don't think they should be used that way.

Of course, the question is, why not? Why am I so intent on spoiling your fun?
Well, a small part of that is competitiveness, I confess. Part of my motivation to stop you from getting extremely strong is the urge to stop me from getting (by comparison) extremely weak. But that's only minor. The majority lies in Paradigm shifts. No, not the pokebrid technique. Real paradigm shifts.
A paradigm shift is, originally, a phrase used to describe a change in basic assumptions and axioms in a science. Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift

In this RP, a paradigm is what I'd refer to as the general, basic strategy in use by players. Up until now, this strategy has been damage-focused. Our primary goal was to deal damage, and to prevent enemies from dealing damage. And that was fun. We used different strategies of course, from your support- and defense-focused team to Impact's "hit stuff with a sword". And that's fine. Battles were hard sometimes, but we had fun.
But see, when you start exploiting the system, that's when we have a problem. I mean, sure, there's nothing basically wrong with you getting quite powerful. It'll make the rest of us feel a little insignificant, sure, but it's ok. But you have to consider the long-term effects. You said your team is more defense- and support-focused, and, again, that's fine. And of course, I have no problem with synergies, with moves that work well together. But with the amount of moves at your disposal, the sheer volume of different effects that you can mix-and-match, potential for abuse is rather high.

If you did find some super-powerful combo, something like the belly-drum/psych-up/baton-pass/cosmic-power shmick, you will get very, very powerful. Enemies will no longer be able to seriously challenge your team. So then what? AB has two choices: He can either keep playing as if nothing's happened, ignore your newfound power and have our enemies progress normally. You'd effectively have reduced the RP to easy mode, where you barrel through everything with 4x attack, defense and sp. defense, and the rest of us either start munchkining as well, or we simply sit back and let you do all the killing. That's the best-case scenario. Because the other case will lead to a paradigm shift. B

The other case is that AB, reacting to your new ability to kill enemies quickly and easily, will scale up our enemies accordingly. That'd challenge you. The rest of us? We'd be dwarfed by enemies scaled to your strength. The paradigm would shift, from a focus on damage-dealing, to a focus on whatever exploit you've discovered, let's assume a focus on buffing, because anyone who isn't using said exploit, won't be able to keep up with the enemies' progression. They'd simply be under-powered. Sure, damage would still have a signalling function, but the mindset, the basic strategy, wouldn't be "do as much damage as we can", but "buff pokemon's stats as much as we can". If we manage that goal, then damage will come practically all by itself. And, of course, AB could design enemies that aren't extremely strong, but are capable of specifically countering whatever exploit you're using, but what's to stop you from switching to a different strategy? Or, alternately, simply pouring more resources into your current strategy, and ways of countering his counter? The current paradigm, deal damage, prevent damage, is fun. If you're allowed to use exploits, even find some dominant strategy, the basics of the game would change rather drastically.
...
Have you ever played a large-scale competitive game that didn't get patched? A friend of mine played one avidly. I think it was called GUNS, or something of the sort. Anyway, initially, it was an third-person shooter with some melee combat and fairly good graphics. Unfortunately, the studio that released it was in a bit of financial trouble, so the game had a lot of bugs and other errors, and there wasn't a patch for almost a year. By the time it did get patched, the game had changed rather drastically. I don't know all the details, but somehow a glitch in grenade-throwing, plus something you could do with the interface made it easy to deal rather huge amounts of damage at good range. The paradigm had shifted rather drastically, and, while the game was still fun (I guess, it still had quite an audience), it really was unrecognizable, gameplay wise. I like our current gameplay in this RP. Please don't change it.

TL;DR:
If you adopt overpowered strategies, the rest of us will be forced to do so as well. This'll change the way the game is played. I don't want that. So don't adopt overpowered strategies, m'kay?

Impact, I'm going to warn you right now: Discord fucking hates men (she doesn't particularly care for other women, either).

I can always try Kirie. Though I'd prefer to hear your say on my balancing issues.

Impact got all of one scratch on Shizuka. And only because she was momentarily distracted by the sword about to fall on Impact's head.

Pierce got one cut (accidental, but still worth about as much as Impact's scratch), a kick and a shoulder slam.

The only reason Impact didn't hit her with any kicks or other non-weapons-based attacks is that he was busy trying to connect with attacks that'd actually do damage. Besides, two out of your three examples involved Impact distracting her for Pierce to hit her.

I'm not sure if I should be flattered or worried at the fact that people are referring to me as Impact, rather than Gem...