The Order of the Stick Megathread

[Odjn]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

I once saved all the planes of existence with a Hold Portal. Shutyoface.

Interesting fact: Most reality destroying wizards are too weak to kick down doors.

Disintegrate.

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by Odjn

Disintegrate.

That's only if he has that known and/or prepared or if he has enough magic left to do that and destroy reality. And if that door bars the way to the room from whence he can destroy reality...

Edit: to clarify - one spell could wipe out an adventuring party, if they're low on power and resources. A second could annihilate a simple door. But if destroying reality took three spells... said wizard might not have that left, especially after engaging in a fight with said adventurers. And its quite possible that unless he had that third spell, he wouldn't be able to survive whatever forces he'd located and/or gathered until he could use it again. Yeah, sure, he could theoretically rest and regain his ability, but then the very enemies he'd fought before would be ready too...

EDIT 2: OOH-OOH! TOTALLY ON TOPIC THIS TIME GUYS I SWEAR!
Ahem: look at the OotS comic! Sure Xykon could destroy reality - he is, by very definition, a reality-destroying wizard. However, it's not a simple matter of going places and kicking stuff down... even though he's "EPIC". He still has to do research, build up his power, gather enough resources and skills to do the whole reality-destroying thing, go to specific locations and make those things work, etc. Plus, much like Xykon, Reality-Destroying wizards rarely simply want to destroy reality. I mean, look at EVILness! He wants to destroy reality, sure, but only so it can be rewritten in his very image! That takes not only power, but class! And EVILness! Point being, you gotta do these things right, and a Hold Portal could be just the kind of minor "annoyance" that saves the universe. Also, Smarty's reply is more eloquent, I just like using words.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Originally Posted by Odjn

Disintegrate.

You haven't fought many reality destroying wizards have you?

[Odjn]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

You haven't fought many reality destroying wizards have you?

There's a billion goddamn magical spells he should have prepared. Disintegrate is the one he should have anyway. If he doesn't have it prepared he should have a summon scroll with a monster strong enough to beat the door down. And failing that, he should have wands/rings/etc with spells that can blow open a simple door, otherwise he's a shitty wizard.

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by Odjn

There's a billion goddamn magical spells he should have prepared. Disintegrate is the one he should have anyway. If he doesn't have it prepared he should have a summon scroll with a monster strong enough to beat the door down. And failing that, he should have wands/rings/etc with spells that can blow open a simple door, otherwise he's a shitty wizard.

Um... no. See, in RPG games - OotS included* (see, totally on-topic!) - you have three limits: actions within turns, power for how you use your actions, and resources (this includes things such as hit points). Unless you are a rediculously power-gamed wizardPun-Pun or one of my creations, you can't have unlimited resources. That means he's going to run out of time/energy/spells/money/etc. at some point. If not, he's not a "wizard" - he's a deity* (and even then, they can be beaten). Wands eventually go away from use. Rings, may or may not, depending on what they do. Scrolls - one use and you're done. Heck, even if he's got great equipment, a single Mordenkainan's Disjunction will kill much of his otherwise 'permenant' power. I see what you're saying, I really do - but you don't know the full situation. And in DnD there are so many variables, well, you just can't say "he would just do this" - the "he" in question might have already done that, as much as they can for the day. Now, if we're talking 4E, he should just Magic Missile the door into oblivion. But that's 4E, and we're going over 3.X, 'cause that's where OotS lies.I'm so totally on topic it hurts!

[Loyal]

Is it really so much to ask that the reality-destroying wizard make sure that any relevant obstacles (doors, adventurers, or otherwise) are dealt with prior to the destruction of reality? Pick a free monday or something to actually get with the unmaking.

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by Loyal

Is it really so much to ask that the reality-destroying wizard make sure that any relevant obstacles (doors, adventurers, or otherwise) are dealt with prior to the destruction of reality? Pick a free monday or something to actually get with the unmaking.

Yes, it is* (this is totally topical! Woot!). Reality - especially DnD reality - is rarely so kind as to give you your pick of when and where to kill it. Seriously. Read EVILness' adventures in doing that EXACT THING. It reads like a perfect set up for a DM trying to campaign an uber villain. EVILness just happens to be better at it than most DMs. Killing Reality itself isn't as easy as killing a DnD deity or anything so mundane. It has a lot of safeguards against that kind of thing, one of which is Murphy's Law.

It's still doable, of course, but reality likes to protect itself from trouble, and you live in it. Said wizard is basically a germ fighting the host's (reality itself) "antibodies" (everything that is against the wizard being successful) that attempt to make sure the host (reality) doesn't die, because they all need it to continue living. Granted that wizard is a virulent and powerful germ, complete with ability to remake the host (reality, sentient or not) in which it dwells into something that suits it better (like a virus injecting its stuff), but a germ nonetheless. I mean, that's the way DnD reality works. Deities are more powerful germs than most, but even they are bound by "T3h Rul3z" of reality, including random chance (represented by the d20) and such.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Counterspells. Antimagic fields. Cutting out his tongue. Disjunction. Readied disruption attempts. Wizards are pussies.

[Odjn]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

Counterspells. Antimagic fields. Cutting out his tongue. Disjunction. Readied disruption attempts. Wizards are pussies.

Tell that to Jon Irenicus!

Also, the key word is reality destroying. If you have a suitable amount of magical power, you are going to know what magic shit is gonna fuck you up. If your super plan hinges entirely on the guys just sitting there while you blow them up it isn't a good plan!

Mordkainen's Diss will ruin me? I'll craft or buy a magic item that makes it chump shit! You casting a spell on me? Bitch I'm destroying reality that shit be COUNTERED. Plus you ain't counting the ten thousand orcs I had on call, there's yo disruption attempts! I have silent spell motherfucker, you cut out my tongue that's what 5 hp? I spit blood on you and it turns into fire! Antimagic fields? Sure thang while you're cowering in there I'll go blow up cities til you decide to throw down, pansy!

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by Odjn

Also, the key word is reality destroying. If you have a suitable amount of magical power, you are going to know what magic shit is gonna fuck you up. If your super plan hinges entirely on the guys just sitting there while you blow them up it isn't a good plan!

Mordkainen's Diss will ruin me? I'll craft or buy a magic item that makes it chump shit! You casting a spell on me? Bitch I'm destroying reality that shit be COUNTERED. Plus you ain't counting the ten thousand orcs I had on call, there's yo disruption attempts! I have silent spell motherfucker, you cut out my tongue that's what 5 hp? I spit blood on you and it turns into fire! Antimagic fields? Sure thang while you're cowering in there I'll go blow up cities til you decide to throw down, pansy!

Odjin: no. Look, M's Diss? It kills magic. Dead. The forever way. Magic items, magic spells, magic crap, magic eaters, dead magic, wild magic, magic plants, any magic at all. Unless the effect is instantaneous, it's worthless after an M-Disjunction gets its game on. Even epic magic items and artifacts (the latter granted being 1% chance per caster level) can be disjoined. Forever. So, no, M-Dis don't play that way homey.

Antimagic field: ON THE CASTER. A caster can't cast spells within the field, and that's the point. If it only works on you, go tackle the jerk - once he's in the field, he's got roughly the battle capability (hit points, weapons, and armor) of a commoner. The problem is that even REALITY DESTROYING wizards have their limits. Nothing is unlimited. How many spells can he counter? At what point does he run out? Even clairsentient wizards can't predict with 100% certainty the future. What if they miss that one spell you've got? What if their orcs were all wiped out first/concurrently? Seriously, there are too many factors to count on.

Destroying reality isn't an easy and straightforward proposition until you're at +1,000 caster level, and even then. Similarly, destroying a city isn't simple. A nuke can and will take out a city, but where are you going to get the parts? How will you arm it? Aim it? Get it to the city in question? Make sure it's not disarmed or shot down before hand? An even better analogy, what about a planet? Currently we've got the resources to turn our own sphere to rubble - but we still can't destroy it yet, without putting considerable time and effort into it. Where would you get that time and effort? Someone would have to be really dedicated, have a lot of good connections, and a stupid fortune, overcome armies (or bypass security in several dozen countries simultaneously) and build not one but a nuklear arsenal of dozens (possibly hundreds), launch them up into space (secretly or not), set them to blow the moon into our planet and pray that it's a good hit. It's hard - doable, but difficult. Reality destroying wizards are similar. They can be shut down at numerous points along the way. And sometimes that point is a simple stuck door. Again: Xykon is a great example of this. He's got the power to do so, theoretically, and the knowledge, and the manpower, and the most everything. So why hasn't he yet? It's hard!