"Strong Female Characters" or "Sexy Girls Kicking Butt In Tight Clothes"

[Kim]

Preeeetty much.

I mean, there's nothing inherently wrong with sexy action stars. There really isn't. The problem is how gendered this stuff is and how much it panders to the straight male gaze.

If we got sexy'd up characters in equal doses regardless of gender and they were sexy'd up to the same degree, I don't think I would complain as much, cuz DAMN. That guy Kry linked? I'd be all over that.

[Seil]

Oh come, now. If you're going to post Anne Hathaway in her Catwoman duds, post the real images.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Which is that the male heroes aren't stereotyped or idealized for their sexual appeal, but rather for their masculinity. Female... well, anythings, honestly, are idealized based on physical attractiveness/physical appeal, as opposed to their other feminine qualities.

not gonna argue the point of how sexually objectified male characters are. Frankly I am unattractive to men, so I dont think I can really compare.

I wanted to address something else. In these example a woman is not based purely on her attractiveness. In fact in most of them, while she is attractive, and probably showing more skin then needed, it usually is not something she uses against others. Her effectiveness instead having more to do with her combat skills

Male counter-part, lets assume there is no sexual motivation. Then the character has only his combat skills. Thats it, it sends a message that a mans worth is deemed solely by his ability to bring harm to others. Cliche action hero is basically just a walking murder machine and only time any other skills come into play (which is rare) its usually just to further his ability to kill.

Not saying its worse then being objectified for sex appeal, but not like male action movie hero's are known for their intelligence or diplomacy either.

[Kim]

Both are stereotyped in different ways. Action heroes are supposed to be the "ideal" man, from a man's perspective. Action women are supposed to be the "ideal" woman, from a man's perspective. Generally speaking, of course. Both are problematic. The thing is, action women are usually designed to be sexy according to the straight male gaze and, unless they're the protagonist, the action man almost always has to save them at some point. They're good, but they'll never be as good as Action Man. That contributes to its problematic nature. Then, in movies where the action woman is the protagonist, she's very often written as a "bitch." Because, you know, any woman capable of standing on her own two feet and kicking ass while still be sexually objectified for the audience HAS to be a bitch.

At least, such is my experience with the genre.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

I wanted to address something else. In these example a woman is not based purely on her attractiveness. In fact in most of them, while she is attractive, and probably showing more skin then needed, it usually is not something she uses against others. Her effectiveness instead having more to do with her combat skills

I was speaking purely on visuals, there.

Masculinity and femininity as concepts I got into in the later half, but really has little to do with how women are portrayed physically. Action girls run a gamut from good characterizations to horrible sexist drivel depending on how things play out, but even the good characterizations are sullied by sticking them in, for instance, booty shorts and a top so tight you can almost see nipple.

For multiple reasons, ranging from cognitive dissonance (who leaves that much skin exposed during gunfights/during safaris/basically at any time? Why is she?) to simply adding a facet to the character that isn't written in regarding her sexuality and how she chooses to flaunt it.

Not saying its worse then being objectified for sex appeal, but not like male action movie hero's are known for their intelligence or diplomacy either.

The problems with this are that society doesn't think 'diplomacy' is cool, and thus it's not a 'negative' thing to avoid it, and male action heroes are quite often shown as cunning, thinking on their feet, etc. They may not stop to calculate pi out to the thirtieth digit, but they will, often, throw water all over the ground and then drop some electrical cables in it to kill/stun multiple better armed opponents, or shoot a steam vent near where a 'bad guy' is taking cover.

I mean, watch the first couple Rambos and it is basically nothing but John Rambo outsmarting everyone so he can kill them.

And, again, calculating pi isn't seen as cool or awesome by society, and thus there is no negative connotation for using their intellect to cleverly think on their feet and use their environment to their advantage, rather than being 'nerds'.

Edit: Ninja'd by Lizilicious, but I think the posts are complimentary more than repetitive.

[Kim]

Kry has brought it to my attention that I forgot to mention action women are often characterized as "sluts" as well. TBH, there's nothing wrong with being a slut, but it is viewed as such by large sections of society, particularly the target demographic. In short: A problematic cliche because it's more sexual pandering while at the same time based in very problematic beliefs.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Originally Posted by Liz

Both are stereotyped in different ways. Action heroes are supposed to be the "ideal" man, from a man's perspective. Action women are supposed to be the "ideal" woman, from a man's perspective. Generally speaking, of course. Both are problematic. The thing is, action women are usually designed to be sexy according to the straight male gaze and, unless they're the protagonist, the action man almost always has to save them at some point. They're good, but they'll never be as good as Action Man. That contributes to its problematic nature. Then, in movies where the action woman is the protagonist, she's very often written as a "bitch." Because, you know, any woman capable of standing on her own two feet and kicking ass while still be sexually objectified for the audience HAS to be a bitch.

At least, such is my experience with the genre.

That's a bit harsh, from my exprience its from both male and female perspectives. Not just strictly male.

[Kim]

Though anecdote is hardly data, you seem to be using anecdotal evidence so I might as well counter with such, most women don't consider the ideal woman to be A. a half naked bitchy slut (terms used for how the shows intend to characterize, else I would not use them) or B. a half naked woman who plays second fiddle to a much more competent male figure.

But what do I know?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Originally Posted by Liz

Though anecdote is hardly data, you seem to be using anecdotal evidence so I might as well counter with such, most women don't consider the ideal woman to be A. a half naked bitchy slut (terms used for how the shows intend to characterize, else I would not use them) or B. a half naked woman who plays second fiddle to a much more competent male figure.
But what do I know?

I don't remember defending that. I was poit more towards the generic sexy not complete hore. Though yes there are women that support that just as they're are guys like us who don't apporve of it.

[Kim]

But it's not "generic sexy." It is wearing impractical, silly outfits for the express purpose of showing as much skin to the audience as possible while still maintaining the intended rating in an attempt to pander to the straight male gaze. This is further reinforced by the camera angles that are often used in these things.