My Little Pony: Friendship is Mafia

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Oron

This made me look for his post.



Turns out Karesh does only claim an invulnerability to Cult. So Hawk's suggestion to have the Vig test Karesh was a really bad on.

Oh, shit. I could have sworn I mentioned later on that it was a terrible idea for a doctor or anything to protect me since the mafia wouldn't work either.
It's actually worded as "Immune to night targeting"

[Oron]

Oh, yeah. I just re-checked. You did mention that mafia targeting wouldn't work on you either.

My bad.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Karesh

Oh, shit. I could have sworn I mentioned later on that it was a terrible idea for a doctor or anything to protect me since the mafia wouldn't work either.
It's actually worded as "Immune to night targeting"

I can't really determine whether Karesh is being honest or if this is an ingenious plan for a scummate to avoid an investigator scanning him because he's "immune to night targeting."
Fortunately I don't think it's a question we need to answer just yet, unless Karesh is the strongest scum role who really just wants to get one of his powerful abilities off before he's killed.

There's something I find inherently skeptical about any "immune to night targeting" roles. I mean, that's almost a brokenly powerful role.

And for a fellow Townie in Sifright to presumably be offered the critical tidbit of information that "Fluttershy is town?"

Here's why I don't necessarily buy this:
1) If he can't be nightkilled or converted, the only way Cult, SK or Scum can get rid of Karesh is by lynching him.
2) If Sifright (another Townie, presumably) is told who Fluttershy is and can announce this, Scum, SK and Cult can no longer lynch Karesh. The entire weakness built into the character design is nullified.

Particularly since it makes intuitive sense to lynch Sifright before Karesh because Sifright flipping Town means that Karesh is Town and Karesh will remain alive for the rest of the game, unencumbered. It's like a free pass, a guaranteed Townie who we can not only trust implicitly as confirmed but who also cannot be eliminated by Scum or Cult or SK by any means.

My reaction to this isn't "Oh, what a huge break for Town!" My reaction to this is "Fenris knows how to balance games better than this, he's not going to give Town a free handout of a confirmed Townie who cannot be killed."

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

I can't really determine whether Karesh is being honest or if this is an ingenious plan for a scummate to avoid an investigator scanning him because he's "immune to night targeting."
Fortunately I don't think it's a question we need to answer just yet, unless Karesh is the strongest scum role who really just wants to get one of his powerful abilities off before he's killed.

There's something I find inherently skeptical about any "immune to night targeting" roles. I mean, that's almost a brokenly powerful role.

And for a fellow Townie in Sifright to presumably be offered the critical tidbit of information that "Fluttershy is town?"

Here's why I don't necessarily buy this:
1) If he can't be nightkilled or converted, the only way Cult, SK or Scum can get rid of Karesh is by lynching him.
2) If Sifright (another Townie, presumably) is told who Fluttershy is and can announce this, Scum, SK and Cult can no longer lynch Karesh. The entire weakness built into the character design is nullified.

Particularly since it makes intuitive sense to lynch Sifright before Karesh because Sifright flipping Town means that Karesh is Town and Karesh will remain alive for the rest of the game, unencumbered. It's like a free pass, a guaranteed Townie who we can not only trust implicitly as confirmed but who also cannot be eliminated by Scum or Cult or SK by any means.

My reaction to this isn't "Oh, what a huge break for Town!" My reaction to this is "Fenris knows how to balance games better than this, he's not going to give Town a free handout of a confirmed Townie who cannot be killed."

Well remember Sif didn't know what my role was, only that I was Fluttershy.
With almost any other person in mafia I don't think you could find somebody so stupidly honest as me, and speaking realistically I think the events and circumstances that lead up to what is potentially a righteous boon to the town (lol modesty) were rather unique.

If he's being honest, not many players under Sif's position would have revealed they knew something special to begin with, let alone specifically that it was related to one player who may have a power role.

And, again, given my position I think it's fair to say that not many would consider openly revealing their roles at such an early stage. Even given the security involved in mine, a role claim of this level is a magnet for suspicion. But I'm taking that gamble.

Truth be told, as you said earlier I could have baited Sif more, but I felt that having a drawn out back and forth between the two of us could have...I suppose the word would be 'tainted' the truth. That it would seem more like a spiteful attempt to kill him off than a genuine attempt to get my role and place in the town into the open.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Also

My reaction to this isn't "Oh, what a huge break for Town!" My reaction to this is "Fenris knows how to balance games better than this, he's not going to give Town a free handout of a confirmed Townie who cannot be killed."

No.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Karesh

Well remember Sif didn't know what my role was, only that I was Fluttershy.

You're missing my point.
Whether Sif knows your role is irrelevant. What's important is that Sif is told that you are Fluttershy (and let's face it, Fluttershy is never under any circumstances a character presumed to be a Mafiate.)

So the conundrum here is simply this: If true, Sif has been given information that would effectively, if played correctly by Sif (admittingly, he jumped the gun) would prevent any lynch attempt on you. Whether or not Sif even knows that "Karesh is Town," the prerequisite two-minute Wikipedia research would inform him that Fluttershy's a good pony, and so if all of this is true, Town-Sif is given the incentive to specifically go to bat for you.

And there's a huge problem with that.
Like, it's not unbelievable that Karesh would be given a Townie role that's unnightkillable and can't be converted. But such a role needs a weakness. The weakness of the role is that Scum, SK, Cult, etc. need to be able to lynch you. And Sifright knowing that you're Fluttershy eliminates that possibility unless Sifright happens to be killed before he can reveal what he knows, which is very unlikely. (He'd tell us what he knows before he'd let himself get lynched.)

For that matter, it's not unbelievable that Sifright, as Town, would be given information in the form of the knowledge of the identity of one other Townie. But it is unbelievable that the knowledge he'd have would correspond to the one and only person who cannot be targeted at night. He effectively would then be given the power to stop the lynching of the one Townie whose one and only weakness is an ability to be lynched.

But here's what really doesn't make sense to me, this hemming and hawing at the notion that Sifright could possibly still be scum, almost as if you want to have an excuse to rely upon in the event that Sifright actually is lynched and he flips Mafiate.
It's like you want to be able to say: "Whoops! Well, I did account for the possibility that he'd flip Scum. Clearly he and his scummates just made up the idea that he knew who Fluttershy was and I just so happened to jump the gun and reveal who I was before bothering to test his knowledge adequately. I'm still Town, and by the way, you still can't investigate me."

Yeah, I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea that Fluttershy just might be a Scum safe-listed role that Karesh is exploiting.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

You're missing my point.
Whether Sif knows your role is irrelevant. What's important is that Sif is told that you are Fluttershy (and let's face it, Fluttershy is never under any circumstances a character presumed to be a Mafiate.)

So the conundrum here is simply this: If true, Sif has been given information that would effectively, if played correctly by Sif (admittingly, he jumped the gun) would prevent any lynch attempt on you. Whether or not Sif even knows that "Karesh is Town," the prerequisite two-minute Wikipedia research would inform him that Fluttershy's a good pony, and so if all of this is true, Town-Sif is given the incentive to specifically go to bat for you.

And there's a huge problem with that.
Like, it's not unbelievable that Karesh would be given a Townie role that's unnightkillable and can't be converted. But such a role needs a weakness. The weakness of the role is that Scum, SK, Cult, etc. need to be able to lynch you. And Sifright knowing that you're Fluttershy eliminates that possibility unless Sifright happens to be killed before he can reveal what he knows, which is very unlikely. (He'd tell us what he knows before he'd let himself get lynched.)

For that matter, it's not unbelievable that Sifright, as Town, would be given information in the form of the knowledge of the identity of one other Townie. But it is unbelievable that the knowledge he'd have would correspond to the one and only person who cannot be targeted at night. He effectively would then be given the power to stop the lynching of the one Townie whose one and only weakness is an ability to be lynched.

But here's what really doesn't make sense to me, this hemming and hawing at the notion that Sifright could possibly still be scum, almost as if you want to have an excuse to rely upon in the event that Sifright actually is lynched and he flips Mafiate.
It's like you want to be able to say: "Whoops! Well, I did account for the possibility that he'd flip Scum. Clearly he and his scummates just made up the idea that he knew who Fluttershy was and I just so happened to jump the gun and reveal who I was before bothering to test his knowledge adequately. I'm still Town, and by the way, you still can't investigate me."

Yeah, I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea that Fluttershy just might be a Scum safe-listed role that Karesh is exploiting.

I'm not gonna say Fenris is a super genius or that he's a total moron, but there's definitely a very large possibility that he just didn't see this shit coming. Truth be told, when I heard of Sifrights role I sort of suspected it was a roulette power that let him know the role of one pony, which just happened to be me. And Fenris without really considering the points you've laid out allowed him to enter the game with that knowledge.

Or, even if he had there's still a significant possibility of mafiate or SK victory at this point. At the end of the day I can't actually do anything to them any more than a regular townie can. Eventually they'll need to be the majority anyway, so all my role really means is they're going to have to save me for the last of the ponies.


To the latter point I really wasn't trying to paint anything like that. I just noticed that after I'd made my claim that someponies were calling it confirmed for both of us. I know I'm Town, so I know they're right when they say "Oh well Karesh is town" but I also know the town won't get too far if they take all this at face value. You can totally trust me, but logically speaking until later in the game when we can get more thorough confirmation on my role, you really shouldn't. Cause being that trusting is tantamount to mass town suicide.

[Fenris]

Nikose 1
Verifiedz

Solid Snake 1
Nikose

Julford Hajime 1
Snake

Sifright 2
Sifright
Geminex

10 to lynch, deadline eventually

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Also I hate to try and paint my own portrait here but I'm not one for double mobius roulette bullshit. If I was fully aware that Sifright was lying, why would I continually draw more attention to him and by proxy my own guilt?

[IHateMakingNames]

Originally Posted by Karesh

... I was Fluttershy.

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Yeah, I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea that Fluttershy just might be a Scum safe-listed role that Karesh is exploiting.