Ex-cop manhunt in LA; tragedy ensues

[pochercoaster]

@ Sif: Like, are you incapable of imagining someone becoming disappointed and crushed by reality without resorting to murder?

[CABAL49]

Originally Posted by Kim

I already posted a preferable alternative to what he's doing.

I already suggested this one as a possibility, so believe me when I say I am legitimately exploring this option with you.

Since this hasn't been clear before, allow me to say it this way: I am not endorsing any kind of action at this time.

So he decides to go through the town as the Punisher of dirty cops. For this we have to pretend he didn't kill two innocent people. What do you think the effectiveness of this would be exactly. He might be able to kill two, maybe three cops in a shootout. He doesn't have the supplies to really make a stand of any kind. No body armor or variety of guns like the LAPD has. Nor the know how to make explosives. So he is left with what he has. The police surround him and put him in a body bag and used as an excuse for the LAPD to crackdown harder. As he will probably be used for in this situation as well. So now what do we do?

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by pocheros

@ Sif: Like, are you incapable of imagining someone becoming disappointed and crushed by reality without resorting to murder?

When it destroys your life in the way that happened to him rips up your entire social anchor, Yea I'm not surprised that the guy has gone off the deep end.

Because thats EXACTLY what happened.

It's not just a case of being disappointed it's your entire life being literally destroyed.

The other response to this which is fairly typical is suicide. I guess that would be totally cool as well then we could have a 2 page thread on how sad it is life could go on and everything can continue to be a giant pile of shit.

Edit: Also lol at your description. 'disappointed and crushed by reality' could you ameliorate that any further? really?

[Azisien]

If he can get his Guilty:Innocent kill ratio back up to like 10:1, then I'd say we can go back to justifying the rampage. It's messy work, there's always going to be a little collateral damage.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Sifright

If you can't empathize and see how a person could be driven to madness in the way he was though I don't really see how we could discuss this further.

...Am I the only one here who thinks the whole idea of him getting "revenge" by killing folks is just a bad idea, period?

Given his background with the LAPD, even if he was only targeting crooked cops, he'd have to understand that the LAPD would use asymmetrical warfare in response to his demands and would likely kill innocents. And, given his prior involvement in both the armed forces and the LAPD, and given the kinds of things the LAPD and the armed forces are likely to teach their adherents, it seems likely to me that this guy's "solution" to his problem has been influenced by the pro-violence mentality of the very nefarious institution he's presumably fighting against.

...In other words, he's becoming the LAPD to take down the LAPD. Where the fuck's the justice in that?!?

Whatever happened to the Wikileaks solution to this issue? If he wants revenge so badly, given we live in the era of the interwebs, contact the Julian Assanges of the world. Post that DVD of evidence online. Send copies to websites that will actually give it the time of day. Publish a blog. Publish an article for a leftist website. The Huffington Post or Al Jazeera would love this. If this was done right he could be part of a solution of promoting systemic change or revolution. As is, he's assuring the promulgation of the status quo by giving the LAPD an easy excuse to eradicate him without addressing the underlying issue of corruption.

The fact that he killed an innocent person -- or even a cop who had nothing to do with the alleged crimes (I'd go one step further than Kim and say, 'ideally', if the shooter had to embark in homicides, he should've targeted cops he knew to be corrupt or whom he knew were personally involved in his dismissal) -- undermines the credibility of his assertions; they do not support the credibility of his testimony.

The sad thing may well be that I'd frankly prefer this guy have committed suicide to get his point across, as opposed to killing people in such a way as to guarantee Death By Cop. He's going to die either way; he's assured that outcome through his actions now.

And look, I'm not even against the idea that violent revolutionary action may well be necessary to change American policies. The issue here is really that Dorner isn't even promoting ideological change. He's selfishly trying to clear his name, and that's his sole objective. His ultimatum isn't demanding the LAPD to address its corruption meaningfully, change specific policies or anything of that nature.

I do feel sorry for the guy. It's very likely the LAPD screwed him over. He isn't a martyr, though. Let's not just toss about heroics to anyone who challenges "the system" no matter their motives or methodology.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Azisien

If he can get his Guilty:Innocent kill ratio back up to like 10:1, then I'd say we can go back to justifying the rampage. It's messy work, there's always going to be a little collateral damage.

...I had no idea there were so many sociopaths on NPF.
(There, you see? I can use hyperbole too!)

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

...Am I the only one here who thinks the whole idea of him getting "revenge" by killing folks is just a bad idea, period?

Given his background with the LAPD, even if he was only targeting crooked cops, he'd have to understand that the LAPD would use asymmetrical warfare in response to his demands and would likely kill innocents. And, given his prior involvement in both the armed forces and the LAPD, and given the kinds of things the LAPD and the armed forces are likely to teach their adherents, it seems likely to me that this guy's "solution" to his problem has been influenced by the pro-violence mentality of the very nefarious institution he's presumably fighting against.

...In other words, he's becoming the LAPD to take down the LAPD. Where the fuck's the justice in that?!?

Whatever happened to the Wikileaks solution to this issue? If he wants revenge so badly, given we live in the era of the interwebs, contact the Julian Assanges of the world. Post that DVD of evidence online. Send copies to websites that will actually give it the time of day. Publish a blog. Publish an article for a leftist website. The Huffington Post or Al Jazeera would love this. If this was done right he could be part of a solution of promoting systemic change or revolution. As is, he's assuring the promulgation of the status quo by giving the LAPD an easy excuse to eradicate him without addressing the underlying issue of corruption.

The fact that he killed an innocent person -- or even a cop who had nothing to do with the alleged crimes (I'd go one step further than Kim and say, 'ideally', if the shooter had to embark in homicides, he should've targeted cops he knew to be corrupt or whom he knew were personally involved in his dismissal) -- undermines the credibility of his assertions; they do not support the credibility of his testimony.

The sad thing may well be that I'd frankly prefer this guy have committed suicide to get his point across, as opposed to killing people in such a way as to guarantee Death By Cop. He's going to die either way; he's assured that outcome through his actions now.

And look, I'm not even against the idea that violent revolutionary action may well be necessary to change American policies. The issue here is really that Dorner isn't even promoting ideological change. He's selfishly trying to clear his name, and that's his sole objective. His ultimatum isn't demanding the LAPD to address its corruption meaningfully, change specific policies or anything of that nature.

I do feel sorry for the guy. It's very likely the LAPD screwed him over. He isn't a martyr, though. Let's not just toss about heroics to anyone who challenges "the system" no matter their motives or methodology.

EDIT:



...I had no idea there were so many sociopaths on NPF.
(There, you see? I can use hyperbole too!)

I deleted my original response.
All im going to say is that if wikileaks taught the world anything it's that whistle blowing gets you fucked and ultimately changes nothing.

Funny that this guy is fired for whistle blowing. You know the thing you want him to do.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Sifright

Suicide wouldn't have got his point across. We would have never heard his story at all.

As for the rest of your rambling post, all im going to say is that non-violence has failed completely in changing the system.

Time to try another approach.

Oh my God everyone here is a sociopath.
Do you feel even the slightest bit of remorse for the presumed innocent people you're willing to let die in order to "change a system" that WILL NOT even change as a result of this man's actions?!?

You're assuming this methodology would be successful when it clearly isn't. Deliberately targeting and killing innocent people is never a great idea to inspire others to come to your defense. It's only a convenient way to enable the institution you're combating to whitewash everything you've actually done and instead concentrate on the fact that you're killing innocent people.

EDIT: Buddy, there's a huge difference between whistleblowing within the LAPD, and whistleblowing to an outside, leftist source who'd be very eager to publicize the LAPD's dirty laundry.

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Oh my God everyone here is a sociopath.
Do you feel even the slightest bit of remorse for the presumed innocent people you're willing to let die in order to "change a system" that WILL NOT even change as a result of this man's actions?!?

You're assuming this methodology would be successful when it clearly isn't. Deliberately targeting and killing innocent people is never a great idea to inspire others to come to your defense. It's only a convenient way to enable the institution you're combating to whitewash everything you've actually done and instead concentrate on the fact that you're killing innocent people.

Did you even read any of my previous posts? Seriously.

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Oh my God everyone here is a sociopath.
Do you feel even the slightest bit of remorse for the presumed innocent people you're willing to let die in order to "change a system" that WILL NOT even change as a result of this man's actions?!?

You're assuming this methodology would be successful when it clearly isn't. Deliberately targeting and killing innocent people is never a great idea to inspire others to come to your defense. It's only a convenient way to enable the institution you're combating to whitewash everything you've actually done and instead concentrate on the fact that you're killing innocent people.

EDIT: Buddy, there's a huge difference between whistleblowing within the LAPD, and whistleblowing to an outside, leftist source who'd be very eager to publicize the LAPD's dirty laundry.

What leftist source?

There is no national media organisation in america that is leftist.

CNN is decidedly on the right of the spectrum see their coverage of OWS.

[rpgdemon]

Originally Posted by Azisien

If he can get his Guilty:Innocent kill ratio back up to like 10:1, then I'd say we can go back to justifying the rampage. It's messy work, there's always going to be a little collateral damage.

No, you can't. He's murdering people.