GamerGate? Da fuq is a GamerGate?

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Ryong

My issue with the "gamers are dead" statement is that it grossly generalizes that every single gamer that isn't one of the new, inclusive gamers who don't require non-stop shooting/brawling/breast bouncing action is, well, like that.

I think it's crucial to specify that not everyone who enjoys playing videogames is a 'gamer.'

Kim I know you hate GG but remember that these people are not trying to attack women's rights (although some are). They just want the fake review scores, and under the table paid reviews to stop.

If that's really true, why hasn't Shadow of Mordor's bullshit Youtube commentary policies garnered even ten percent of the scrutiny Quinn has?
(HINT: It's because it's not really about inappropriate arrangements between games media and developers.)

[Marc v4.0]

Originally Posted by Ryong

I feel that this whole Zoey Quinn scandal was the last straw on a series of stupid events, not just about gaming journalism but also about a large part of internet culture. It hit all the "right" spots.

The movement was never actually about games journalism, that was literally just a facade they threw up once they started realizing that no one was going to get behind them just straight up harassing and threatening women in gaming. People have bought in to it from there.

[Aerozord]

Is there any actual evidence of any corruption at all? Nearest I can tell people just assumed a female game developer was sleeping with a journalist so obviously he was giving her positive reviews, but in fact he didn't talk about her or her game at all during the time they were dating.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Kyanbu The Legend

Kim I know you hate GG but remember that these people are not trying to attack women's rights (although some are). They just want the fake review scores, and under the table paid reviews to stop. Sometimes it really pays to be neutral, it gives you the chance to see the full picture. Sadly I don't see this ending anytime soon.

That is not and has never been their concern and I say this as someone who's been semi-regularly interacting with them and also been watching her friends harassed.

Jenn Frank harassed out of writing for "not disclosing" something she did disclose. Even after all doubt that she didn't disclose was erased, GG still stood by harassing her.

Zoe Quinn CONTINUES TO BE HARASSED ON A REGULAR BASIS and yet they insist they aren't doing that, that she's lying, that this isn't about her because her ex fucking COACHED THEM to do that, and it's fucking gaslighting.

GG pressured Intel to stop supporting Gamasutra for publishing Leigh's piece. That isn't about fucking ethics and corruption. That's shitty nerds feeling attacked and lashing out because of it.

Christine Love being attacked, Brianna Wu being driven off Twitter, GGers deciding they're going to "peer review" feminist DiGRA papers even tho these same GGers literally have no idea how peer review actually functions, time and time and time again I see people I've known or people I care about targeted by these fucks and the rest shrug it off as not their problem (when they aren't actively endorsing it which is often). I'm getting transphobic hatemail on a daily basis. At least eight messages today. I see women on the GG side attacked for calling out the men the movement idolizes. A LITERAL GODDAMN NAZI WITH A SWASTIKA TATTOO ON HIS CHEST just joined them and their are a bunch fucking swooning over him cuz he's a hacker.

I don't just hate GG for the fuck of it. I hate GG because they're abusive, hateful, and the world is worse for their presence.

You don't find weird that, in a scandal wherein journalism is at the center, several sites having articles in the exact same tone about the exact same thing on the same day, even using nearly the same headlines? Maybe I'm weird, then.

No, I actually don't, because I've actually interacted with the games journalism industry and I've known for quiet sometime that how gamers perceive it is not and has never been remotely accurate, and because I've interacted with the people in the industry and I know what they're like, something else that gamers generally don't know jack fuck about.

People in the same industry talk to each other. Their conversations can inspire thoughts on subjects among each other. They also react to the same events and at times draw from similar backgrounds when reacting to them.

Also, the title thing. Really common. The Death of Print, The Death of Journalism, The Death of Music, The Death of Radio, Death of the Author. It's a TROPE.

And hey, if you don't do the shit Leigh calls out in her article, THEN SHE PROBABLY WASN'T TALKING ABOUT YOU. It's important to recognize that a vocal portion of the gaming community is fucking awful and while that doesn't mean all gamers are fucking awful, that does mean we have to recognize that awfulness is a part of the community.

If that's really true, why hasn't Shadow of Mordor's bullshit Youtube commentary policies garnered even ten percent of the scrutiny Quinn has?

True fact: I and a bunch of others tried to draw GGs attention to it and when they weren't defending it they were saying that wasn't what GG was about or that they'd get to it "eventually".

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

I think it's crucial to specify that not everyone who enjoys playing videogames is a 'gamer.'



If that's really true, why hasn't Shadow of Mordor's bullshit Youtube commentary policies garnered even ten percent of the scrutiny Quinn has?
(HINT: It's because it's not really about inappropriate arrangements between games media and developers.)

That's true, not everyone who games identifies as gamers. Some play casually, others treat it as a hobby. That doesn't however mean generalizing is a good thing to do though. People tend to forget that humans are creatures of chaos capable of just about anything. Tribalism plagues those that don't keep an open mind but not everyone of a group is good or evil nor suffers from that.

Which brings me to my second point. like I said, I've been to both sides of this cyber war. GG isn't full of terrible people. Same goes for Gamasutra.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by Kim

People in the same industry talk to each other. Their conversations can inspire thoughts on subjects among each other. They also react to the same events and at times draw from similar backgrounds when reacting to them.

Pretty much all this. Plus I do disagree with the assumption that knowing someone involved in a project means you will be kind to it. I've seen lots of reviews, lets plays, whatever where they personally know someone that worked on the game and still tear it to shreds.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Kim

True fact: I and a bunch of others tried to draw GGs attention to it and when they weren't defending it they were saying that wasn't what GG was about or that they'd get to it "eventually".

Therein lies the hypocrisy: Because Shadow of Mordor is a good AAA game (and it is, in fact, objectively a good game, independently of its bullshit Youtube censorship push), dudebro 'gamers' won't dare criticize it.

Even more importantly than it being a 'good game,' though, it's the kind of game 'gamers' will absolutely let slide, because it fits the dudebro status quo of excessive masculine violence and a complete lack of a social message beyond "Let's kill some orcs" (and it's, essentially, an all-male cast.)

Mind you, I'm actually somewhat sympathetic to Shadow of Mordor's development team because this isn't a case where the developers were actually responsible for censoring media, the developers just chose to hire the wrong company to help advertise their product. Even still, developers will keep hiring that company to handle social media in the future unless folks who play videogames speak up about it, so it's really fucking important that it's called out as bullshit. So it's a shame that 'gamers' really don't give a shit when they're actually confronted with real censorship instead of the imaginary sexually active women-beasts they're raging against.

[Marc v4.0]

Basically, anytime you think that Gamergate might actually have a valid point in their fight against 'corruption', remember that they literally have not expressed a single micro-fuck about AAA publishers throwing cash around at journalists and review sites, and only care about the corruption of female and feminist developers/reviewers/supporters not fucking people for attention or simply expressing an opinion.

This is the level of bullshit that is going on here.

[greed]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

Is there any actual evidence of any corruption at all? Nearest I can tell people just assumed a female game developer was sleeping with a journalist so obviously he was giving her positive reviews, but in fact he didn't talk about her or her game at all during the time they were dating.

This seems to be the case Aero. It's just assholes looking for a poor excuse to be assholes.

[Amake]

People are lying about crucial timing of events, about what they want, about whose interests they represent and about who's involved, so if you take everything everyone says at face value it's really hard to guess what's going on. Eventually the cops may figure out a reliable timeline enough to make sure the actual people who are committing actual, organized harassment and defamation get their dues, I hope.

But in the meantime I mostly find it useful to listen closely to people and see what they have to say for themselves. Like when you show something like this to a self-proclaimed "gater":

And you get a reaction like

That this woman is in fear about some words spoken on the internet is sad but not really of my concern.

...well, you get a sense of what these people are trying to accomplish.