New Age Weapons and Warfare

[Sithdarth]

No, you just make the leg movements automatic, aka computer controlled.

Until you get a bullet through the computer core, it crashes, gets a virus, gets hacked and the OS changed, or simply gets hit by an EMP. At least with a huminoid mech you have the possibilty of a manual back up system that could still function even with the loss of the computer.

As for taking out a leg, it probably wouldn't happen that much in space. Anything smaller than the mech would be easy prey and anything larger, and not mech like, would be out manuvered. Plus recent advances in metallurgy, like metallic glass, suggest armor my become very hard to pierce in just a few years.

[popularnerd]

For instance, a GDI Titan, was like a walking tank, but could easily be destroyed by a squad of infantry. Again, mecha are posibly best applied on the infantry level.

[Aerozord]

its like the aircraft carrier. It is a deadly weapon but without the destroyers guarding it, it would be sunk like nothing

[adamark]

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

Until you get a bullet through the computer core, it crashes, gets a virus, gets hacked and the OS changed, or simply gets hit by an EMP. At least with a huminoid mech you have the possibilty of a manual back up system that could still function even with the loss of the computer.

As for taking out a leg, it probably wouldn't happen that much in space. Anything smaller than the mech would be easy prey and anything larger, and not mech like, would be out manuvered. Plus recent advances in metallurgy, like metallic glass, suggest armor my become very hard to pierce in just a few years.

Your last sentence invalidates your first statement.

As for getting a virus or EMP, I don't see your point. If it can affect a spider mech it can affect a bipedal mech. As complicated as a spider's movement appears to be, the motion of an individual leg itself is similar, it's mearly the timing that changes. The movement in a bipedal's legs, ankles, arms, and upper body - however - all affect its balance and mobility. There's no possibility that all of these considerations could be simplified into a manual control system.

[Dante]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

this is true but when you have no ammo its better then nothing. When a tank is out of ammo it is of little use.

A mech without ammo is equally useless. Charging a fortified position with anti0armor weapons is virtual suicide for a mech.

they have them, its called the Harrier. It just needs to hover for short periods to be effective.

Power to weight ratio again. An aircraft is essentially a giant engine with fins on it. This is not the same for a tank or a mech.

Mud is, as a rule, only a few inches. Its displacement is so high it will hit bed rock or dry dirty easily

You have obviously never seen RL difficult terrain.

yes they can take a sniper nest and the building the sniper is in. Except as mobile artillery or shock value it is pointless. As for the c4, strap a small furtilizer bomb on tank treads and its down.

I do not understand what you are trying to say here. But I am saying that a tank has a smaller blind spot than a mech.

Al though I do not deny the fact that tanks are vulneable to the "mobility kill", though less so than the mech.

The point is your not limited. You can use it in gravity even with the arguement that it isn't as effective. You can use a tank in space but you can use a mech in space or on the ground, perhapps even air and water.

No, you are limited. mechs are only practical in low grav environments. A mech in water is nowhere is streamlined or effetrive as other aquatic vehicles, like ships or subs.

Mechs also have the advantage of being single maned, while a tank requires a team of 5-7. It also has low visibility and a highly vulnerable ammunition section

A tank crew is 3-4. Get your facts straight. A mech's visibility is hardly better than a tanks' and it has a bigger blind spot.

Oh and your commet on support, tanks require troop support or they are picked off. If it right a rifle shell can take it out.

HA! It is to LAUGH! A RIFLE round? Against sloped Chobham armor?

Come back again when you get some REAL knowledge.

Originally Posted by SPARTAN

In urban areas, use of the smoothbore 120mm cannon is impeded by the fact that the rounds are designed to penetrate armor. If you use that in an urban environment, you run the risk of heavy civilian casualties.

If there's fighting in urban environments, civilian casualties are pretty much expected, unless they're evacuated beforehand, in which case there is no problem.

Originally Posted by adamark

I don't understand that last sentence but as I understand (someone ACTUALLY in the military can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the relationship between infantry and armor is a symbiotic (sp?) one. The infantry protect the tanks, the tanks protect the infantry. You present a mech as a vehicle so fast that it seems to me that it would out run the infantry. It would have no support besides other mechs. That just sounds really risky to me.

Infantry and tanks have a somewhat symbiotic relationship. Tanks take out obstacles the infantry can't cross (MG trenches, barbed wire, etc.) while infantry take out threats the tank can;t properly engage (point blank skirmishers, AT missile nests, etc.)

And FYI, I am in the military, and I've seen and heard enough from the guys in the armored units to know what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by Aerozord

the same way a jet pilot does. You can automate the loading and gunner, and with just a pilot the cammander isn't needed.

Then that pilot will have an immense workload. Pilot efficiency will drop when he has to do the job of many men. Excessive automation is dangerous precisely for Sithdarth's reason, because simple is better.

One sniper bullet inbetween the armor plates can take out a tank. You are right it can out run a soldier, then again so can a tank

*smacks head* Such idiocy...

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

Until you get a bullet through the computer core, it crashes, gets a virus, gets hacked and the OS changed, or simply gets hit by an EMP. At least with a huminoid mech you have the possibilty of a manual back up system that could still function even with the loss of the computer.

Sith, the EXACT SAME THING can apply to ANY vehicle whose movement is computer controlled. Like a bipedal mech.

As for taking out a leg, it probably wouldn't happen that much in space. Anything smaller than the mech would be easy prey and anything larger, and not mech like, would be out manuvered. Plus recent advances in metallurgy, like metallic glass, suggest armor my become very hard to pierce in just a few years.

Anything smaller than you is harder to hit. And when that smaller thing carries weapons capable of knocking you down and whatnot...

The commando scouts in my army carry LAW tubes. A very nasty surprise for any light vehicles thinking they've found themselves easy meat. So too can small vehicles do this.

[Sithdarth]

Your last sentence invalidates your first statement.

Not really becuase every armor has a weak spot.

A bipedal mech might not function 100% without the computer but it could still remain mobile without one. It might take a while but a good pilot could do it.

The motion of a 6 plus limb creature is much more complex. With that many limbs each one has to become segmented. Four plus joints are harder to control than three. The mechanics of segmented limb movement makes mutlilimb motion a much more complex. Not only that but the become thinner in relation to the body to save weight and increase mobility. Each joint in the leg as to be mainted or replaced and makes a good target for destruction. Combine that with the fact the limbs would generally be less massive than a bipedal mech and you got a pretty big weak spot.

[Illuminatus]

Sorry I'm late. I've been reading over the various posts, and most of the futuristic technology that's being discussed seems pretty dubious in it's practicality, save one...

The troop exoskeleton, or just armor. The part of a soldier that gets upgraded and changed more than anything is his basic gear. Clothing, armor, rations, so on and so forth. An exoskeleton, or advanced suit of armor would simplify and consolidate everything the soldier needs. It would also be possible for it to amplify his strength, speed and very easily his targeting capabilities. We're not talking Mechwarrior here...think Starship Troopers, think Starcraft marines. Just a suit of armor designed to monitor bodily functions, administer first-aid, provide a simple targeting computer...not that far in the future at all.

Just my two bits.

[Aerozord]

it appears Dante doesn't realize they are armor plated. Plates have kinks. Fire at one and it goes through.

Tanks have huge blind spots. They have small openings and no parephiral vision. Only salution is radar, which can be applied to a mech as well. The difference is that a tank cant hit any place. A mech can touch its legs a tank cant touch its treads. Heck if I sat ontop of a tank it cant touch me (I know wont happen, but try to get that close with a radar equip mech that can simpley step on you).

You also refered to pilot overload. They already developed a system for choper pilots to organize and manage all these systems. It can easily be adapted.

[Squishy Cheeks]

Aerozord give me a a working example of a mech.

[Dante]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

it appears Dante doesn't realize they are armor plated. Plates have kinks. Fire at one and it goes through.

It appears Aerozord doesn't realize that tank armor is CONTIGUOUS with no openings between.

Tanks have huge blind spots. They have small openings and no parephiral vision.

Not arguing that. But a mech is also blind without external cameras, and tanks can also moutn external cameras. It cancels out.

Only salution is radar, which can be applied to a mech as well. The difference is that a tank cant hit any place.

Neither can a mech.

A mech can touch its legs a tank cant touch its treads.

And this is relevant... how? This also assumes your mech has hands, which is also irrelevant and inefficient.

Heck if I sat ontop of a tank it cant touch me (I know wont happen, but try to get that close with a radar equip mech that can simpley step on you).

I wouldn't have to get close, I'd simply flank you from both sides with wireguided missiles from 500m away, or pop up right under you where you can;t react fast enough to me planting charges on your mech.

And if you DO bend down to hit me... well, you're just ASKING for missiles up the ass.

You also refered to pilot overload. They already developed a system for choper pilots to organize and manage all these systems. It can easily be adapted.

Good point, except that attack choppers STILL need two people to fly them.

Not really becuase every armor has a weak spot.

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

A bipedal mech might not function 100% without the computer but it could still remain mobile without one. It might take a while but a good pilot could do it.

You'd still need computerized systems to translate pilot movements into mech movements, s well as take into account the increased mass, etc. of the mech.

The motion of a 6 plus limb creature is much more complex. With that many limbs each one has to become segmented. Four plus joints are harder to control than three. The mechanics of segmented limb movement makes mutlilimb motion a much more complex. Not only that but the become thinner in relation to the body to save weight and increase mobility. Each joint in the leg as to be mainted or replaced and makes a good target for destruction. Combine that with the fact the limbs would generally be less massive than a bipedal mech and you got a pretty big weak spot.

Yes, but you cannot deny that bipedal mechs are still less stable and taller targets than spidermechs, and that they are both equally incapacitated without their control systems.