Who would win if it were up to us?

[Vicious]

Originally Posted by Dynamite220

He doesn't admit that he's wrong because he doesn't believe that he's wrong. If you stated an oppinion of yours and someone said that you were obviously wrong and demanded you apologise, would you, even though your oppinion is just as lagitamate as his?

If my obviously wrong opinion directly led to the invasion of a country and over one thousand lost American lives, not to mention several thousand Iraqi civilian deaths, then, yes, I would apologize.

[Dynamite220]

1. No oppinion is wrong. It goes against the meaning of the word and the nature of the consept for an oppinion to be wrong. That doesn't mean that all oppinions must be the same. It just means that from different points of view, something different applies.

2. When you are a leader, sometimes you must decide who dies so that others might live. Playing god in this way is not fun, nobody likes doing it, and nobody likes the people who do it. It must be done by someone, however, as is the nature of man and government and that he was willing to make those choices promptly, based on his own principles, and despite the impopularity of his decision shows a depth of character which you or I have not lived long enough to be able to show.

In shorter terms, if you would not repeat the invasion, it means that you have a different oppinion; not that your oppinion is inherently better because less and/or different people die from it. (It is my personal oppinion that, based on evidence found in Iraq, there would be two Iraq citizens dead just from Husain's special treatment for every war death so far. There is no way to proove it, that is just what I choose to believe.)

[neyo the king]

Black Mage for President! Seriously, I think it would have been best for the US is anyone but Bush was president.

[C-dog]

Just because Bush believes he's right doesn't mean he is. There are no WMDs in Iraq. They've given up searching. Bush was wrong about that one, no matter what he believes. There was no legitimate reason to start the war in Iraq! And have you seen the US economy? It's in shambles! The deficit is higher than ever and the dollar falls every day. And yet he was voted in again... Kinda makes me wish I lived in Canada. Oh wait.

Actually, although I think if Bush had lost, it would have been better for the world in general, Bush has been not too bad for Canada. With the American dollar falling, the Canadian dollar is worth a lot more in the US, which has been great for our economy.

Anyway, if I were American I would have voted for Kerry. There should really be a poll to go along with this thread.

[C-dog]

Just because Bush believes he's right doesn't mean he is. There are no WMDs in Iraq. They've given up searching. Bush was wrong about that one, no matter what he believes. There was no legitimate reason to start the war in Iraq! And have you seen the US economy? It's in shambles! The deficit is higher than ever and the dollar falls every day. And yet he was voted in again... Kinda makes me wish I lived in Canada. Oh wait.

[Vicious]

1. It wasn't just an opinion. He acted on it, and he was wrong. Having an opinion isn't the wrong part. The wrong part is the subject matter of that opinion. If someone says it's alright to grill a baby for lunch, they have a right to think that, but within the moral constrictions we as humans have set forth, it is obviously wrong.

2. George W. Bush does not have the authority to decide who lives and dies. Period. You say it has to be done, but I don't see any set rules that states mass genocide is absolutely necessary. Just because something has been done in the past doesn’t make it any less immoral. Especially when such acts are prompted by "rumors."

You have to consider it. George Bush himself solely directed an attack upon a country... They did not attack us first. It was a single-sided act of aggression on the part of the US. We invaded their country and overthrew their government. Yes, Saddam Hussein killed his citizens, but George W. Bush killing them doesn’t make it any better.


Aaaand, on top of that, he dosen't even bother to acknowledge what he did.

[Dynamite220]

Jesus people. He's a person, not a god. Seriously, even if I wasn't cutting him so much slack, I wouldn't touch Kerry with a two mile pole, much less vote him for president. I would have voted for him anyway because of his stand on taxes and on small government (we're lucky we don't get as much government as we pay for and yet we still have too much) but I did vote for him because Kerry's oppinions look suspiciously like the current public oppinion polls in the New York Times and Nadir's are rather extreeme (if you've never read the Green party's goals, then you should. Nadir didn't run for them this year, but he's run for them before so he must hold similar views). If you insist on a "lesser of two evils" race then Bush is definitely the lesser of two evils.

[Thanatos]

Personally, it would have been ME. Yes Thanatos future president of the world. Here are a list of just a few of my policies:

Military: We are all tired of seeing our citizens going dying in foreign wars, but war is an inevitability. So, how do we solve this problem. Well, I've been giving this a lot of thought, and have figured out a way to kill two birds with one stone. We have another major problem, prison overcrowding. So here's what we do. We take our death row inmates and drop them on the frontlines with guns and explosives. They have already proven they have no qualms about killing people, so we put this to good use by letting them do the brunt of the fighting. If they die, oh well we wer going to kill them anyway. If they survive their sentence will be commuted to life without parole. The second wave of fighters will be the lifers. I can create military positions for every criminal out there, and if they prove themselves, their sentences can be reduced.

Economy: The problem with the economy is simple, we keep buying stuff that we don't have the money to pay for. Money is based on nothing, except faith that the government will back whatever is the value on the paper. But when our government keeps getting further and further in debt, people have less and less faith, meaning the value of the dollar drops. How do we solve this? Get rid of money. Switch our economy back to a barter trade system.

Education: With the aforementioned change in the economy, teachers will finally be paid what they deserve. In exchange for educating your child, you give the teacher whatever your skills allow (cooking, cleaning, build a house, grow food.) Teachers will live just as well as doctors, because people from every industry will use their services. Goods and services used to trade for education, will be collected by the government a divided among the educators, so that each teacher recieves the same goods and services as others of his/her ability. The better the quality of a teachers instruction the better the quality and quanity of goods and services.

Bush.....

George Bush.....

How can anyone be proud of a president such as him? His name is like ash in my mouth.

[My Lead Airbag]

First off, just wanted to say I voted Libertarian. I could never stand the extremists on both sides, and every election makes me realize thats all the two parties are made of.

Secondly, to all the Bush haters going on about the war, just stop. Yes, there have been a lot of American lives lost and there have been civilian casualties, but we also managed to get rid of a despotic mass murdering psycho. Now, the main arguments I see against the war are:

Where are the WMDs now huh? - True, the whole WMD thing turned into one long running Daily Show Joke, but you can't just say "Well Saddam had no WMDs at that point, he'd never get them." Thats looking at the tree as you miss the forest. Bush thought that Saddam, whether now or in the future, would have access to weapons that would pose a danger.

He did it to avenge his daddy. - Possible I guess. Not likely, but possible.

Soldiers lives and Civilians lost - Yes, we've lost a thousand or more to the war. But everyone is acting like Bush picked out the ones who would die. No one picked those guys and gals fates. There is no draft, we live in a country where you have to volunteer to fight, they knew what they were getting into. And judging from the fact that a good 90+% of the Armed Forces vote Republican might be construed as an indicator that maybe they agree with the war.
Civilian wise, I can't defend Bush beyond "War is hell."

All that isn't to say I agree with Bush fully though. I might agree the war was an ok idea, but his domestic issues are just heaping piles of shit. I'm Catholic and I'm still offended that we're close to banning gay marriage and even they're right to a civil union. He and his cronies just beef up every little thing (WMDs, Social Security, gays, etc) to the point where the message is "Believe this or you hate America".

All the Democrats really need to do is find a guy with some charisma, or at least a personality. You guys can't rest on Clinton's laurels.