Order and Chaos: Source of both Creation and Destruction - Page 2

RedScar · 03-01-2005, 09:01 PM

Dude you made the stufff visable in your quote. And really where do you think I got it?

Anyways... If one is somewhere where there is no set order and chaos then when one adjusts to this change(i.e. stops panicing) they can create their own order and chaos.

Azisien · 03-02-2005, 09:36 AM

Interesting as this is, where are we taking this? Aside from taking some stabs at what order and chaos are (using analogies of light and dark), and spitting out definitions of physical laws from the first link we find on google...

On a big scale, Hamelin is correct, but in this discussion I would say the mentioning of the second law is utterly pointless. We're talking about humanity on Earth, not the cosmos. The second law you pasted refers to a closed system only, but we are in an open system (as you may have tried to point out).

It gets pretty mushy, I'd say order is far more important to us than chaos. Why? Because we are beings of order, simply put, and our entire existence is a struggle against chaos. (As Hamelin's pasting of the definition vaguely points out). Destruction is far easier than construction, and that's because the universe flows towards chaos much easier than it does chaos. With that in mind, I'd say order is prominent for us because, whether we like it or not, our healthy dose of chaos is already there.

Editted to say: I had a thought, you put dictatorship and anarchy as examples of order and chaos regarding society and so on. But you also said our mind is half order, half chaos (though of that we can't be entirely certain). If that's the case, then a dictatorship is not perfectly order, it is ruled by an individual who uses his/her half order, half chaos mind. Same idea works with anarchy. It doesn't remain stable because we are not fully chaotic creatures, our existence is non-chaotic, and thus the formation of law and hierarchy is innate to us.

Aerozord · 03-02-2005, 02:56 PM

well we have both order and chaos inside our psyche but I never said they were equal. In fact it is a rare few that have both and can utilize it constructively. A dictatory might have both order and chaos but that person is dominately order. Like an anarcist may not like order and law but still has both, merely preffers chaos and freedom.

Also you must remember you cannot destroy a physical object without getting something new. You may destroy a piece of wood in a fire but you create heat, water vapor, CO2, ect. The reverse is also true. If you make something what it was is destroyed. When I spoke of how order and chaos creating and destroying I ment a persons mind purely.

Basically a person with strong sence of order and chaos is internally conflicted. It is possible they may seperate the two and develope a split personality, or they may just mentally break down not being able to handle dealing with both (hence destruction).

A persons "self" is not a physical object. It does not obey the laws of matter meaning it can solely create or destroy.

03-01-2005, 09:01 PM	#11
RedScar Just another NPF ghost Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Califorina, you heard me right. Posts: 694	Dude you made the stufff visable in your quote. And really where do you think I got it? Anyways... If one is somewhere where there is no set order and chaos then when one adjusts to this change(i.e. stops panicing) they can create their own order and chaos. __________________ I'm officaly saying it now. Due to me becomeing an MMO addict (Final Fantasy XI) I will be here not often. If you see me you are lucky. True geeks know what it is to be the friend who listens. Sensitive, intelligent, beautiful girls come to us for meaningful talk and profound empathy, then go back to their idiot boyfriends for wild, monkey sex. We need to talk less and workout more, fellas. -Joe Dodson

03-02-2005, 09:36 AM	#12
Azisien wat Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,177	Interesting as this is, where are we taking this? Aside from taking some stabs at what order and chaos are (using analogies of light and dark), and spitting out definitions of physical laws from the first link we find on google... On a big scale, Hamelin is correct, but in this discussion I would say the mentioning of the second law is utterly pointless. We're talking about humanity on Earth, not the cosmos. The second law you pasted refers to a closed system only, but we are in an open system (as you may have tried to point out). It gets pretty mushy, I'd say order is far more important to us than chaos. Why? Because we are beings of order, simply put, and our entire existence is a struggle against chaos. (As Hamelin's pasting of the definition vaguely points out). Destruction is far easier than construction, and that's because the universe flows towards chaos much easier than it does chaos. With that in mind, I'd say order is prominent for us because, whether we like it or not, our healthy dose of chaos is already there. Editted to say: I had a thought, you put dictatorship and anarchy as examples of order and chaos regarding society and so on. But you also said our mind is half order, half chaos (though of that we can't be entirely certain). If that's the case, then a dictatorship is not perfectly order, it is ruled by an individual who uses his/her half order, half chaos mind. Same idea works with anarchy. It doesn't remain stable because we are not fully chaotic creatures, our existence is non-chaotic, and thus the formation of law and hierarchy is innate to us. Last edited by Azisien; 03-02-2005 at 09:39 AM.

03-02-2005, 02:56 PM	#13
Aerozord So we are clear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Former murder capital of the world Posts: 13,824	well we have both order and chaos inside our psyche but I never said they were equal. In fact it is a rare few that have both and can utilize it constructively. A dictatory might have both order and chaos but that person is dominately order. Like an anarcist may not like order and law but still has both, merely preffers chaos and freedom. Also you must remember you cannot destroy a physical object without getting something new. You may destroy a piece of wood in a fire but you create heat, water vapor, CO2, ect. The reverse is also true. If you make something what it was is destroyed. When I spoke of how order and chaos creating and destroying I ment a persons mind purely. Basically a person with strong sence of order and chaos is internally conflicted. It is possible they may seperate the two and develope a split personality, or they may just mentally break down not being able to handle dealing with both (hence destruction). A persons "self" is not a physical object. It does not obey the laws of matter meaning it can solely create or destroy. __________________ "don't hate me for being a heterosexual white guy disparaging slacktivism, hate me for all those murders I've done."