Yet another trigun question thread, SPOILERS INCLUDED

Mintaro · 08-23-2005, 11:55 PM

SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS.

There now that EVERY ONE KNOWS, there will be spoilers. I can continue.

I have often asked myself the question "Is knives dead". I Have looked all around online, and even read through some of the dead pages discussing this very question. I have yet to see anyone bring up this as evidence.

At the ending, when Vash has bandaged Knives. Why is Knives's chest bandaged? I know Vash shot him in the shoulder, but shoulder bandages usually don't go across the chest. Besides the fact it looks a little low for it to be that, going in fact across where his heart would be (assuming his body is like a humans).

Just for the record I beleive he is dead. I just don't think Knives can be 'Saved' in the rehabilitating sense (and yes I have it in Japanese AND English). Plus in the ending credits shot of Vash holding Knives, Knives's eyes are closed (I used Zoom), plus he looks really limp.

Now for the sake of argument lets just say he is dead for a second. The question then arises why would he bandage knives? I think it would be so that he can give Knives a proper burial. After all we do the same sort of thing with our dead (well most of us).

Soooo...discuss. Oh and feel free to ask other questions too.

Meister · 08-24-2005, 04:11 AM

You do go limp if you're unconscious, and I'd guess, having no medical experience, that you have to hold a shoulder bandage in place somehow. Besides I think it to be highly unlikely that Vash just throws away all his inhibitions against killing just because he's killed someone previously.

Toastburner B · 08-24-2005, 09:42 AM

I believe Meister is right on this one.

If you saw the series, you know how it affected Vash when he [SPOILERS!!!!] Legato to save the girls. You know, the episode where he wakes up screaming as soon as he remembers what happens?[/SPOILERS]

Besides, we know that Vash and Knives can rengerate...at least, Vash could if he wanted to. So, Knives is alive, otherwise Vash would of buried him and gone to pieces, not bandage him up and carry him away.

Mintaro · 08-24-2005, 01:44 PM

While normally I would agree about Vash not killing another person. The scene after he is dragged through the desert by the townsfolk, and Meryl goes on her whole speach repeating what rem had said but with a different twist. He gets a look of understanding on his face. And then begins talking saying in subtext essentially 'If you know its wrong, you can be forgiven for it.' I use the subtext because what he actually says is INCREADIBLY vauge, as is the anime style.

It seems to me that at this point he begins to stop listening to what Rem said, and instead begins to think about what she really meant. Then of course later he actually says that he finally understands what Rem meant, and that he would 'take care of knives.'

besides the fact that the bandage on the shoulder, wouldn't work as a brace. The level just doesn't seem right. And sure Knives can regenerate, but as far as we know he was never actually killed. He just lost his legs. Because the beam from the gun went through them.

Staizer · 08-24-2005, 09:03 PM

"Take care of Knives." can either mean, "I will kill knives" or "I will heal him, and care for him, include him in my life."

Why does it matter whether knives is dead or not? This is the majesty of a good anime, they leave you thinking, and making your own decisions based on what you have seen.

If I were Vash after all that had happened I would still care for knives as opposed to killing him. Vash never had to kill before, so why should he start now?

edit: except once when he hardly had a choice.

Toastburner B · 08-26-2005, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintaro

It seems to me that at this point he begins to stop listening to what Rem said, and instead begins to think about what she really meant. Then of course later he actually says that he finally understands what Rem meant, and that he would 'take care of knives.'

Forgive if I get this wrong, it's been a long time since I've seen Trigun all the way through.

Sure, he says he's going to "take care of Knives" at one point, but, if I recall correctly, the last thing he says as he's walking into desert on the second-to-last episode is "I'm going to save Knives."

It be kinda hard to equate killing to saving.

Majin Darshe · 08-29-2005, 08:32 AM

Knives was alive. I thought it was painfully obvious. Vash had a chance to shoot him in the head at the end of their battle, but in the final scene, not only is he bringing back his body, but there's no gaping hole in his head and he's all bandaged up.

And there's that whole thing about Vash not wanting to kill people...

synkr0nized · 08-29-2005, 11:32 AM

I doubt Vash would have shot Knives where he did, bandage him up, and bother to carry him around if he merely wanted to kill his brother. But that's only my opinion. I don't see anything wrong with interpreting it differently.

This made me think of the end of Noir, where [omg spoilers] Mireille and Kirika walk off together, the screen fades to a picture of the watch, and two gunshots are heard. Some people have suggested that they shot each other, as Mireille always promised that she would kill Kirika. I am of the view that it merely means the two of them are continuing their work as Noir, eliminating the Soldats.[/omg] Whee.

PyrosNine · 08-29-2005, 03:10 PM

Vash and I are both Momma's boys, and What happened was that he realized what Rem meant. Vash is now going to be rough on Knives. Vash has always been smarter than Knives, or more to the point, He knew better. But being a doormat of a guy, Vash does little to rein in Knives.

At the end, he realizes his failure to teach Knives the error of his ways, and that's what he set out to do in their final battle. Vash gave Knives the multiple centuries worth of 'spankings' he was due. Now Vash is going to teach Knives to walk the right path. Now you may not think Knives will submit to this education, or that Vash was ever capable of stopping Knives. Vash always was. Vash has proven to be the most strongly willed of the two, a man who would spend his entire life trying to not kill, but rather help those who wish to harm him, whereas Knives is a weak willed fool who will kill anyone he percieves is a threat or obstacle. Knives walks an easier path, but at a terrible price, (He's insane!) Vash will now grill Knives to the best of his ability, until Knives learns the difference between good and evil, and about the vast amount of Grey in the world.

TheBlindMime · 08-29-2005, 04:14 PM

Pyrosnine that is the only thing anyone has said against Mintaro's point that I believe. And for that I thank you. It rounds out the series more completely and follows the CLAMP rule of peaceful style and a mothers love.

I believed that Knives was dead, because of the bandage across the chest as well as the line "Take care of knives". And I know that in most cultures its considered improper to bury someone without binding their wounds. And even more so, to simply bury them where they died. I had assumed that Vash brought Knives back to bury him in consecrated soil, while leaving the violence of Knive's past (the two guns) where he died.

But frankly I like your version better.

08-23-2005, 11:55 PM	#1
Mintaro Bending space Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 1,863	Yet another trigun question thread, SPOILERS INCLUDED SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS. There now that EVERY ONE KNOWS, there will be spoilers. I can continue. I have often asked myself the question "Is knives dead". I Have looked all around online, and even read through some of the dead pages discussing this very question. I have yet to see anyone bring up this as evidence. At the ending, when Vash has bandaged Knives. Why is Knives's chest bandaged? I know Vash shot him in the shoulder, but shoulder bandages usually don't go across the chest. Besides the fact it looks a little low for it to be that, going in fact across where his heart would be (assuming his body is like a humans). Just for the record I beleive he is dead. I just don't think Knives can be 'Saved' in the rehabilitating sense (and yes I have it in Japanese AND English). Plus in the ending credits shot of Vash holding Knives, Knives's eyes are closed (I used Zoom), plus he looks really limp. Now for the sake of argument lets just say he is dead for a second. The question then arises why would he bandage knives? I think it would be so that he can give Knives a proper burial. After all we do the same sort of thing with our dead (well most of us). Soooo...discuss. Oh and feel free to ask other questions too. __________________ [CENTER]"To look on virtue is divine, to destroy virtue is ecstasy." "Hate me now, kill me later" -Mintaro, Myself So THATS where his ideas came from. Xbox live: Cort Crow

08-24-2005, 09:42 AM	#3
Toastburner B Toasty has left the building Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hiding...because I don't want to die. Posts: 3,936	I believe Meister is right on this one. If you saw the series, you know how it affected Vash when he [SPOILERS!!!!] Legato to save the girls. You know, the episode where he wakes up screaming as soon as he remembers what happens?[/SPOILERS] Besides, we know that Vash and Knives can rengerate...at least, Vash could if he wanted to. So, Knives is alive, otherwise Vash would of buried him and gone to pieces, not bandage him up and carry him away. __________________ I came, I saw, I got team-killed. A lot.

08-24-2005, 01:44 PM	#4
Mintaro Bending space Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 1,863	While normally I would agree about Vash not killing another person. The scene after he is dragged through the desert by the townsfolk, and Meryl goes on her whole speach repeating what rem had said but with a different twist. He gets a look of understanding on his face. And then begins talking saying in subtext essentially 'If you know its wrong, you can be forgiven for it.' I use the subtext because what he actually says is INCREADIBLY vauge, as is the anime style. It seems to me that at this point he begins to stop listening to what Rem said, and instead begins to think about what she really meant. Then of course later he actually says that he finally understands what Rem meant, and that he would 'take care of knives.' besides the fact that the bandage on the shoulder, wouldn't work as a brace. The level just doesn't seem right. And sure Knives can regenerate, but as far as we know he was never actually killed. He just lost his legs. Because the beam from the gun went through them. __________________ [CENTER]"To look on virtue is divine, to destroy virtue is ecstasy." "Hate me now, kill me later" -Mintaro, Myself So THATS where his ideas came from. Xbox live: Cort Crow

08-29-2005, 11:32 AM	#8
synkr0nized synk-ism Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: throughout the Wired Posts: 6,857	I doubt Vash would have shot Knives where he did, bandage him up, and bother to carry him around if he merely wanted to kill his brother. But that's only my opinion. I don't see anything wrong with interpreting it differently. This made me think of the end of Noir, where [omg spoilers] Mireille and Kirika walk off together, the screen fades to a picture of the watch, and two gunshots are heard. Some people have suggested that they shot each other, as Mireille always promised that she would kill Kirika. I am of the view that it merely means the two of them are continuing their work as Noir, eliminating the Soldats.[/omg] Whee. __________________ Find love.

08-29-2005, 03:10 PM	#9
PyrosNine Zettai Hero Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: A figment of my own imagination Posts: 6,103	Vash and I are both Momma's boys, and What happened was that he realized what Rem meant. Vash is now going to be rough on Knives. Vash has always been smarter than Knives, or more to the point, He knew better. But being a doormat of a guy, Vash does little to rein in Knives. At the end, he realizes his failure to teach Knives the error of his ways, and that's what he set out to do in their final battle. Vash gave Knives the multiple centuries worth of 'spankings' he was due. Now Vash is going to teach Knives to walk the right path. Now you may not think Knives will submit to this education, or that Vash was ever capable of stopping Knives. Vash always was. Vash has proven to be the most strongly willed of the two, a man who would spend his entire life trying to not kill, but rather help those who wish to harm him, whereas Knives is a weak willed fool who will kill anyone he percieves is a threat or obstacle. Knives walks an easier path, but at a terrible price, (He's insane!) Vash will now grill Knives to the best of his ability, until Knives learns the difference between good and evil, and about the vast amount of Grey in the world. __________________ Pyrosnine.blogspot.com: An experimental blog of writing. Updated possibly daily. Possibly. A fair chance. Current Works for reading: War Between them, Karma Police. PyrosNine: Weirdo Magnet Extraordinaire!

08-24-2005, 04:11 AM	#2
Meister Pure joy Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 10,689	You do go limp if you're unconscious, and I'd guess, having no medical experience, that you have to hold a shoulder bandage in place somehow. Besides I think it to be highly unlikely that Vash just throws away all his inhibitions against killing just because he's killed someone previously.

08-29-2005, 08:32 AM	#7
Majin Darshe Shyguy Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 189	Knives was alive. I thought it was painfully obvious. Vash had a chance to shoot him in the head at the end of their battle, but in the final scene, not only is he bringing back his body, but there's no gaping hole in his head and he's all bandaged up. And there's that whole thing about Vash not wanting to kill people...

08-29-2005, 04:14 PM	#10
TheBlindMime IGNORE ME! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,218	Pyrosnine that is the only thing anyone has said against Mintaro's point that I believe. And for that I thank you. It rounds out the series more completely and follows the CLAMP rule of peaceful style and a mothers love. I believed that Knives was dead, because of the bandage across the chest as well as the line "Take care of knives". And I know that in most cultures its considered improper to bury someone without binding their wounds. And even more so, to simply bury them where they died. I had assumed that Vash brought Knives back to bury him in consecrated soil, while leaving the violence of Knive's past (the two guns) where he died. But frankly I like your version better. __________________ President of the Official Zombie Horde: Shambling mess / Friend of Zombie Bear I was just playing around with my imagination and then everything got INTENSE.