Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

Wait a sec. In MGS SOL We find out that it wasn’t big boss who was behind the whole Outer Heaven deal, but Solidus, another clone to big boss and the closest resemblance. At the end it turns out that the Shadow Moses project (outer heaven) revealed snake as the perfect soldier (or something close to it). The Patriots (12 men that controlled the govt. and ruled the USA—who turn out to be long dead and replaced with a giant AI) want to see if they can make more ‘snakes’ by putting regular people through the same situation. They re-scripted Shadow Moses (Now with this big cleanup facility and arsenal gear, that ends up being another tie) with a counterpart of everyone in the original and put a new ‘snake’ through it-- Raiden

It goes in deeper, Raiden was raised by Solidus (resembles snake and Big Boss’s relationship) and was an outstanding child soldier, Fortune’s sorrow was purposely provoked and… blah blah blah. ‘Lets put someone else through snakes hell and see if they turn into him’.

The ending tells you that everything that took place throughout the whole SOL story was the actually S3 plan. This was the test to see if Snake could successfully be recreated in someone else. If it DID work, they would continue it with many more people and create the perfect army and so on and so forth.

Now I’m guessing, since I heard that Snake Eater is a prequel, (BTW, I saw screenshots. I think it’s snake, not BB, who you play as) that the story takes place in the civil war (of the MGS series plot which I still don’t understand was over-- we’ll prolly find out) where Snake, in the end, is forced to duel with his best friend (who is on the enemy side) and kills him and then Fox Hound screws with things more after that (You know what happens.) So, basically we’re going to be playing through Snakes rookie days as a genome soldier in this war.

[IHateMakingNames]

Your Big Boss, not Snake in Twin Snakes...

*shrug* Looked like a remake when I saw the screens. Can't wait 'til it comes out, though. I'll br getting it. (Does anyone have info on the Twin Snkes SL?)

[IHateMakingNames]

You were probably looking at the GC MGS that is coming out (I forgot what it is called) which is a remake of the PS1 MGS game.

Twin Snakes is coming out in a year I think, and takes place in the 60's or 40's, and your Big Boss (Who looks like Snake though, since he is young). They are probably going to try and make you think your Snake at the begining (Like they did with Raiden when he was underwater for a bit), then show you that it's really Big Boss.

[Creamsteak]

So the second NES metal gear game isn't canon? Did I get that right?

That throws off some of my assumptions then... I really thought that I knew everything there was to know about the metal gear series.

And for the guy who said, "who knew of the games before the PSX metal gear", I hate you.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

Wait a sec. In MGS SOL We find out that it wasn’t big boss who was behind the whole Outer Heaven deal, but Solidus, another clone to big boss and the closest resemblance.

The problem is, you're confusing your storylines bigtime. Outer Heaven & Shadow Moses are two entirly different places. Although, I can see where you might get confused, with Liquid Snake's line.

But I'll try to clear it up. The original Outer Heaven outpost/city was located somewhere in South Africa. Shadow Moses was an island up in Alaska. Liquid's line was suggesting he was intending to make Shadow Moses into a new Outer Heaven, but not saying it was the same place.

There, that clears up at least *THAT* part of your confusion.

As for the Patriots storyline, I kinda get the feeling that they never were human, and were always a computer. Those people that are represented, might have been programers responsible for the Patriots, or just faces that the computer uses to conduct human business.

Also, I'm not sure what the deal was with patterning the tanker incident after Shadow Moses. For one thing, a number of different explainations are given (creating the perfect soldier & creating some sort of mass populace control). Another reason is not to trust the source information.

I mean, I'm sorry to say, but Snake is not the perfect soldier. If he was, he'd follow orders without question, and be the perfect little tool. He isn't, and thanks to Shadow Moses, he's even more of a free agent than he was.

So both of the explainations don't really seem to work for me.

Of course, the fact that all the Metal Gear games pretty much recycle certain game elements (a number of things you did in MGS were already done in the first two MSX games), suggests that MGS2 is just suffering from a lack of creativity in game design.

Oh well... Anyway, I hope that solves more confusion that it creates...

SWB

Ah, I see... So Outer Heaven is way off somewhere else. Mmkay, my bad. There's another thing though. I think the patriots were actually alive at one point, but had no one to succeed them. Thus they decided to program one, or all, of themselves into- and create the- AI. From there the AI got it's own ideas 'n' so on.

About Snake. I didn't say he WAS thee perfect soldier. (hence the quotes I used) But he was, if not the best, one of them. He went through the impossible and unbelievable in Shadow Moses and did it again after many more times after that. His experiences were the most intense and most serious. Plus, he was considered a legend and, in some cases, a hero because of his reputation.

So explain to me [again] what the deal with Outer Heaven was...? Is that were the civil war was? And probably the first Metal Gear? *Doesn’t know*

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

Ah, I see... So Outer Heaven is way off somewhere else. Mmkay, my bad. There's another thing though. I think the patriots were actually alive at one point, but had no one to succeed them. Thus they decided to program one, or all, of themselves into- and create the- AI. From there the AI got it's own ideas 'n' so on.

No, the history of the Patriots, as information about them in any form, was left vague and very open ended. It was believed that the Patriots were 12 men who were sort of an Illuminati-type group that pulled the strings behind the scenes. Whether it was ever comprised of humans, or was always an AI is pretty much left up to speculation.

About Snake. I didn't say he WAS thee perfect soldier. (hence the quotes I used) But he was, if not the best, one of them. He went through the impossible and unbelievable in Shadow Moses and did it again after many more times after that. His experiences were the most intense and most serious. Plus, he was considered a legend and, in some cases, a hero because of his reputation.

Look, I think there's a bit of confusion with what I'm trying to say. Snake is a very awesome fighter, especially in terms of working alone & accomplishing tasts. What I'm saying however, is that he's not that great of a soldier anymore. He has little respect for the chain of command, and he questions his orders. In that respect, he's a horrible soldier.

So explain to me [again] what the deal with Outer Heaven was...? Is that were the civil war was? And probably the first Metal Gear? *Doesn’t know*

Okay, here's the short version:

Metal Gear 1 (NES/MSX): Military compound/Nation called Outer Haven builds up a substatial force. Kidnaps Dr. Petrovich to develop something called Metal Gear. The United States has its special forces group, Fox Hound deal with the situation. Fox Hound, lead by Big Boss, first sends in Grey Fox, but he's captured. Next, Fox Hound sends in Solid Snake.

Snake not only rescues Fox & Petrovich, but learns that his comander is actively betraying him, as Big Boss is actually the leader of Outer Heaven. Apparently kills Big Boss, and destroys Metal Gear.

Metal Gear 2 (MSX):
Another Military compound/Nation called Zanzibar Land arrises. (I forget where it was located, but I think someplace in Northern Africa.) At the same time, a Dr. Kilo Marv developes a new kind of fuel additive that nearly triples fuel supplies. Thanks to this, Zanzibar Land kidnaps Dr. Marv.

Thanks to his prior experience with this sort of thing, Solid Snake, and a new Fox Hound headed by Roy Campbell, are called in.

Anyway, Snake makes his way in, rescues Marv, and along the way finds out that there's a connection between Zanzibar Land & Outer Haven. He also runs into Dr. Petrovich again, and eventually another Metal Gear, piloted by Grey Fox.

Finally fighting an apparently not dead, Big Boss. End of the Fight, Big Boss explains that he's Snake's father, but kinda snuffs it before too many details are explained.

Metal Gear Solid:
Solution (Solidus) Snake is at the time the President of the United States. He tricks his brother Liquid & Fox Hound to cause havoc at Shadow Moses in order to get the attention of the Patriots, leaving him free to do his own activities.

He did this by means unknown. Him might have actively been working with Liquid and the pair of them might have been working against the Patriots, or perhaps he tricked Liquid into thinking taking over Shadow Moses was a good idea, without letting Liquid know that he (Solution/Solidus) was behind the plot (ala Ocelot).

Unfortuantly, just as Ocelot is a plant for Solution/Solidus, Ocelot is also a plant for the Patriots. So in fact, the Patriots know *EVERYTHING* that Solidus is up to.

Metal Gear Solid 2:
Part 1:
Snake is blamed for the deaths of all aboard the tanker & made into a criminal. This is to counter his hero status he gained from Shadow Moses, which didn't stay classified as it should have.

Part 2:
Fed a completely false story, Raiden is sent in to the Metal Gear factory in order to apparently stop Solution from taking control of it. However, along the way, we learn that the Patriots have been meddling with Solutions plans, to the extent that he's merely a puppet, and everything that is going on is some sort preliminary mental reconditioning program, whose exact details are never made entirly clear.

Sky Warrior Bob

Aaaaahhh. Okay, okay. I see know. So when this new Metal Gear was piloted by Grey Fox, snake had to take him out?
word
XD About the little snake issue again. Scratch the word 'soldier' I didn't mean that. I meant warrior. Though the term used in MGS was soldier. =/
Come to think of it. Snake wasn't a bad soldier at all. In MGSI He seemed to follow orders pretty well and on line... I dunno about the other games. He only stopped following orders after he had none to follow. FoxHound was disbanded.

(OOC: In MGSII Substance they have a the difficulty level 'european extreme'... whats the difference beteen this and regular extreme? Also, Do they have the previos story (BB, Zanzibar blah blah) on MGSII so I can educate myself a little more?)

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I dunno, I bought Substance, but I never played it much. Having aready beaten Sons of Liberty, I never really did much with the title.

Waste of my money, but feh.

Also, you keep confusing what I'm trying to say about Snake & being a good soldier. In Metal Gear Solid 2, it is stated that the Shadow Moses/Metal Gear Solid incident is used as a pattern for creating the perfect soldier and/or loyal follower.

But take a look at Snake. Is he under the command of any military organization, or respect their authority? No. In MGSII, he in a fringe organization, and essentially trying to embarass the US government.

He got that way *AFTER* Metal Gear Solid 1. So, while he might be a more effectively trained espionage agent, he's far more of a loose cannon than he was in MGS 1. The exact opposite of the desired result of the claimed purpose of the Metal Gear Solid 2 project.

Sky Warrior Bob