Bioshock. Excited? Dismayed? Frumpy?

[Magus]

lol Does Halo have clones at this point? That one Goldeneye: Rogue Agent had the same energy bars, but I don't think it was very similar otherwise.

[Tydeus]

Originally Posted by Monkeybonk

So basically you get confused and irritated when you have to use your brain, and you'd rather just eat Ritalin and play Halo clones for the rest of your life?

"OMG I HAEV 2 WACH MY AMO WUT FAGUT GAY QUER HOMO SHIT ASS IS DIS WTF WTF"
"ROFL PUZLES? PUZLS R 4 HOMOS N NERDS IM 2 H4RDKORE 2 SOLVE PUZLS"
"DIS GAEM SUX LOL ALENZ? ALIEZN WERE STOLED FRM HALO 2 TEH BESTST GAM EVR MADE LOLOL"
"WTF WERS TEH SNIPAER RIFFLES N ROCKIT LAUNCER WUT QUEER HOMO MADE DIS GAEM MY NAEM IS "LEET_SNIPER_WOLF_KILLER_GOKU_SAYAN" IN HALO 2 4 A REESUN OMG DIS GAEM SUX"

Yeah, that's a really accurate assessment of what I said. You're absolutely right -- I never gave any reasons, or in-depth explanations of what I think makes a game fun, I asserted total and complete authority over all opinions, and I got personal and used stupid insults. Yup. You sure got me; how will I sleep, knowing that such witty satirists have so effectively demolished my nigh-incomprehensible, caps-locked slurs!

So, to conclude, fuck you, buddy.

And, btw, I'm both gay, and a nerd (I play D&D and MTG on a regular basis, and I'm smart -- isn't that pretty much the definition of a nerd?), so you probably won't find me using either of those as insults...

Anyway, I like using my brain, sure. Puzzle games can be a blast -- Ocarina of Time is perhaps the single greatest game I've ever played -- but they need to let you be in control, and it tends to help if they're full-on puzzlers/platformers. Mainly because the puzzles come more frequently, and interaction with the environment is a bigger part of the game, and can both reveal clues, and offers more ways of completing/creating puzzles.

Also, it seems to me that the first-person-perspective tends not to be conducive to puzzlers. Yes, there is the Myst series, but again, those were full-on puzzlers. Given that this is being advertised first and foremost as an FPS, the puzzle element, looks, to me, like more of a frustration, and something that breaks up the action, rather than adding to the fun.

Oh, and I take Adderall, not Ritalin. Get with the times, pal.

[Kikuichimonji]

Originally Posted by Magus

Oh, and the one major gimmick is that there are these small children called Collectors or some crap like that, guarded by these giant guardian fellows (those sea diver guys), and you can kill these children, IF YOU DARE RISK THE EMOTIONAL SCARRING! *DUN DUN DUN* Oh, wait, it's a video game and we don't care. Give me my massive amounts of biofluid-stuff for killing the virtual children, please.

There's also the fact that they're guarded by virtual tanks.

Really, the video doesn't cover the gameplay that much. It focuses too much on the atmosphere to tell, like Drusus said. Will there be sweet battles against hideous enemies? We don't know. However, I think the idea is great and I love the freedom.

[Tydeus]

Originally Posted by Lockeownzj00

Therein lies the flaw of pretty much all your arguments. It's not being advertised as Serious Sam 3 by any means. I don't know why you would expect BFGs.

Pretty much all your "issues" involve making the game easier. I know there's a breaking point, but what do you expect? How do you deal with challenges? "Enemies come out of nowhere! They're hard to kill!" It's being made by some brilliant people; I have a feeling you'll cope. You're not talking about control at all. You're talking about the extent to which you get your ass kicked.

Not true. Believe me -- I like a challenge. I don't play Halo on Easy, I play it on Legendary. However, I still feel "in control."

OK, let me explain it for you. I don't mind taking damage, I don't mind dying, so long as it's theoretically possible for me to prevent this from happening.

Dead Rising can be my specific example here -- in the bossfights, you get knocked down a lot. That is not being in control. That is frustrating. Go ahead, shoot me, make me take damage, make it hard for me to win, but don't knock me down! Don't prevent me from fighting back!

That's what worries me about Bioshock -- it looks like there will be a lot of times when you will have to take damage, no matter what you do, e.g., a character jumping out of a shadow, hitting you before you can blink, let alone react.

That, to me, is frustrating. Sure, in Halo 2, there were places were I died many, many, many times. But, I knew, if I just practiced, strategized a little more extensively, and was patient, I would be able to beat that part of the game.

So, easy is not what I ask -- in fact, a game that's super easy is no fun. However, I don't like a game where I don't control what's going on, at least in terms of my own character.

[Kikuichimonji]

Originally Posted by Drusus

Not true. Believe me -- I like a challenge. I don't play Halo on Easy, I play it on Legendary. However, I still feel "in control."

Everyone with testicular organs and/or decent gaming skills plays Halo on Legendary. Because Hero is too goddamn easy! Unless you have an idiot for a partner.

Originally Posted by Drusus

OK, let me explain it for you. I don't mind taking damage, I don't mind dying, so long as it's theoretically possible for me to prevent this from happening.

But that's part of the fun of the game. It's those "Oh shit that's a monster behind the door and he's got a nice row of teeth and is that my brain splattered across the wall?" moments. And there are plenty of these in Halo. For example, the Library. Is there a way to prepare for that one goddamn Flood with the goddamn rocket launcher without already knowing he's there? Sure, but it's just as likely that you won't get eaten by the hypothetical evil-thingy. The only difference is that you know about the rocket launcher, so any avoidance of it will be more 'skillful' than that of avoiding what you don't know.

Originally Posted by SandyBrown

That's what worries me about Bioshock -- it looks like there will be a lot of times when you will have to take damage, no matter what you do, e.g., a character jumping out of a shadow, hitting you before you can blink, let alone react.

That, to me, is frustrating. Sure, in Halo 2, there were places were I died many, many, many times. But, I knew, if I just practiced, strategized a little more extensively, and was patient, I would be able to beat that part of the game.

So, easy is not what I ask -- in fact, a game that's super easy is no fun. However, I don't like a game where I don't control what's going on, at least in terms of my own character.

I have no idea where you're getting this from. Where does it show a lack of control of the character? If anything, it's one of the games that looks like it could give the most control over a character. I don't see much evidence of unavoidable traps here.

[Tydeus]

Originally Posted by Kikuichimonji

Everyone with testicular organs and/or decent gaming skills plays Halo on Legendary. Because Hero is too goddamn easy! Unless you have an idiot for a partner.

But that's part of the fun of the game. It's those "Oh shit that's a monster behind the door and he's got a nice row of teeth and is that my brain splattered across the wall?" moments. And there are plenty of these in Halo. For example, the Library. Is there a way to prepare for that one goddamn Flood with the goddamn rocket launcher without already knowing he's there? Sure, but it's just as likely that you won't get eaten by the hypothetical evil-thingy. The only difference is that you know about the rocket launcher, so any avoidance of it will be more 'skillful' than that of avoiding what you don't know.

Well, yes. However, I might point out that the Library is pretty much my least favorite level in either Halo 1 or 2. Mainy for the repitition, but surprises like that don't make it any better. And, if you haven't already, play Dead Rising, and then tell me the boss battles aren't frustrating.

Originally Posted by Kikuichimonji

I have no idea where you're getting this from. Where does it show a lack of control of the character? If anything, it's one of the games that looks like it could give the most control over a character. I don't see much evidence of unavoidable traps here.

Just the types of characters, and also the gameplay video involving the "splicer" baddies. I have a feeling that splicers and Big Daddies might both be fairly irritating monster-types. Certainly the way the demo guy avoided the Big Daddies makes it seem like they're going to be damn tough.

And, as for the customization -- hell yes. The more of that, the better. However, I think that that might get overshadowed.

But, at the end of the day, this is, of course, speculation. We really have no idea, and we just come here because it's something to do (instead of job/housework/homework). Bioshock looks bad, to me. Really, I just wanted to be a little inflammatory, and use it as a platform to talk about control/freedom in games. Of course we can't know until it comes out.

[Kikuichimonji]

Just the types of characters, and also the gameplay video involving the "splicer" baddies. I have a feeling that splicers and Big Daddies might both be fairly irritating monster-types. Certainly the way the demo guy avoided the Big Daddies makes it seem like they're going to be damn tough.

But you don't have to go after them. If you avoid the Little Sisters, they're perfectly content to let you go on your merry way. If you don't want to fight against them, it seems like you won't have to in most cases.

And in the demo, he killed a splicer with two shots when he had the right ammo. It's hella harder than that to kill one of those spiny bastards in RE4. Freaking long-armed fish-floppy bastards. (Wow. I'm an angry little man recently)

But, at the end of the day, this is, of course, speculation. We really have no idea, and we just come here because it's something to do (instead of job/housework/homework). Bioshock looks bad, to me. Really, I just wanted to be a little inflammatory, and use it as a platform to talk about control/freedom in games. Of course we can't know until it comes out.

Then, excuse my bluntness, why are we still having this conversation? I mean, there's not even any logical way to evaluate it without more on the game.

[Tydeus]

Originally Posted by Kikuichimonji

Then, excuse my bluntness, why are we still having this conversation? I mean, there's not even any logical way to evaluate it without more on the game.

Well, yeah, that's kind of what I was driving at.

[Lockeownzj00]

That, to me, is frustrating. Sure, in Halo 2, there were places were I died many, many, many times. But, I knew, if I just practiced, strategized a little more extensively, and was patient, I would be able to beat that part of the game.

Okay then, you "don't" want easy. You want predictable, and linear. Something you can plan out. Which, I think, is by definition easy.

Then, excuse my bluntness, why are we still having this conversation? I mean, there's not even any logical way to evaluate it without more on the game.

I say we keep speculating instead of falling back on 'it's just my opinion and we can't know' as an escape to a tenuous argument.

Any game that implements this complex AI is bound to have those 'lightbulb' moments--you realize, [i]oh wait, I can just make the Big Daddy go here, attack this pipe, do this, and avoid that battle entirely![/ i] or something like that. It seems like you'll have the latitude to do that.

Also: FPS/RPGs with body mods==BEST.

[Tydeus]

Originally Posted by Lockeownzj00

Okay then, you "don't" want easy. You want predictable, and linear. Something you can plan out. Which, I think, is by definition easy.

Why is everyone on my case for not liking games that are frustratingly difficult? Is that some inexcusable crime that darkens my soul -- indeed, the whole planet?

I don't mean "repeat until I've memorized every last enemy move and can beat this section."

I mean "Hone my skills until I can beat this section." There are linear, predictable parts of games that I would not call easy.

Call of Duty 2, for example. Horrendously linear, stupefyingly rehearsed, should, therefore, be "easy." Huh. Funny, because, Veteran mode is a fucking bitch. It's not even fun to play (Yes, I have 940 Achievement points from it, but only because I'm OCD). You couldn't ask for more linear, predictable gameplay, but it's still hard as hell.