After Completing FF12

CelesJessa · 12-22-2006, 12:26 AM

I wasn't sure were to post a discussion about this, since the last thread about FF12 was about, 4 or 5 pages back there, so I decided to start a new one (if a mod decides to close it or merge it with another FF12 thread, feel free)

Also, as a forwarning, if you haven't completed FF12, beware looking through this thread.

Anyway, I finished FF12 a few nights ago and, while I must admit that the game is nothing short of fantastic (as far as graphics, gameplay, etc) I found myself wanting more after finishing FF12, and it wasn't the good kind of wanting more.

While I don't feel like there were too many loose ends by the end of the game, it still had a feeling of "there could have been so much more" to it. By the time you get to the final fight, it felt like that was about the time that they should throw in some huge plot twist or something. It just felt like it ended a few hours too early.

By the end, I was expecting a lot more out of the Occuria, Venat, and that entire thing there. The Occuria kind of popped in, pretended to be a important plot point, than disappeared. Vayne had a lot of potential to be a super-evil bad guy, but he didn't do much directly to the plotline, it didn't feel. The characters didn't hardly even see Vayne once before the last battle.

And what about the Bahamut? Where did that come from? I know they (kind of) explained it, but it just seemed to pop out of nowhere.

The last two dungeons of FF12 were just not enjoyable at all and were like some kind of final-push to the ending.

So before I rant longer, I'll just summarize with: It has been a long time since I have had so much fun exploring a world, or powering my characters up, but something about the story felt lacking. I read in a review somewhere that, compared to FFX, In 50 hours of gameplay, there is 50% less story and I would have to agree with them. In my opinion, they could have done so much more with it and made a true masterpiece.

Is this just me expecting too much out of the game, or did anyone else share my feelings on this?

Nique · 12-23-2006, 06:25 AM

I haven't got to play it hardly at all, but my instrist keeps wanning... I just kind of have this gut feeling about the game that this thread seems to validate.

Let me ask this - does it seem like FFXII strays from the forumla of FF in a bad way? That's kind of what I'm getting, but I can't base that on any thing substancial.

CelesJessa · 12-23-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nique

Let me ask this - does it seem like FFXII strays from the forumla of FF in a bad way? That's kind of what I'm getting, but I can't base that on any thing substancial.

I'm not sure if it strays that much from it, other than the battle system, which is brilliant and fun to do. While there are changes there from the rest of the Final Fantasies, it was very refreshing for Square to try something new (I'm always for new) so that the old FF Formula doesn't feel so rehashed over and over and over again. It's significantly less plot-driven and more "search and world" style (while I loved the "search the world stuff" (I love that world) I was still expecting more out of the storyline.

It's not to say that the plot was weak or dumb, the plot was FANTASTIC but they could have done so much more with it. When it ended you were like, "wait... this CAN'T be the end. Why did Venat want to destroy the shards? Did the rest of the Occuria stop caring about what was going on?"

My brother and I discussed this the other night and we agreed that the plot for FF12 felt like it had a serious case of ADD. One minute they're like Ooh Ba Gamnon could be chasing Balthier and kidnap Penelo! And-and-and then the group gets caught up in the rebellion... ooh and more Cryst shards! And-And the Occuria! And... oh wait. Did we finish up the Ba Gamnon plot thingy? Whoops... uh... throw him in a hunt somewhere where you just kick his butt, yeah, that will work.

Regulus Tera · 12-23-2006, 01:16 PM

I really can not comment on this thread until I finish playing it (got a little sidetracked with the sidequests, and instead of going to the Pharos I'm still working my ass through the Necrohol of Nabudis), but even at this point in the game I feel that the game was kind of rushed at the beginning.

For example, the Occuria appear too late for my taste, and I feel we could have had more with the other judges (especially Drace). It does take away some of the feeling, but taking into account the circumstances that this game had to go through during development I think it is understandable.

In any case, I prefer a Final Fantasy with fifty percent more gameplay than plot.

Lord of Joshelplex · 12-28-2006, 11:32 PM

Its fun, but you may never play it more thant once, like most RPGs. I enjoy the comabt, and being in a not kidded out Ivalice is nice.

Fifthfiend · 12-29-2006, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CelesJessa

When it ended you were like, "wait... this CAN'T be the end.

I think I've said that for every FF since Seven.

Shit, maybe Six.

Adghar · 12-29-2006, 01:59 AM

Hint: Use Ctrl+A to cast Decensoraja.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CelesJessa

Why did Venat want to destroy the shards? Did the rest of the Occuria stop caring about what was going on?

I thought Venat wanted the shards, which is why Cid was all like "MINE MINE ROFL KEK" at the Cryst instead of shooting the Cryst.

On the Occuria thing - I pretty much have to agree here but it does seem like the natural progression of the plot - as the heroes uncover more about nethicite and magicite and the deities, they get more involved with the whole Occuria mess and the characters begin making deals with the gods - something like power creep, except with plot - plot creep.

But I am in agreement that they appear too late and too sudden.

The second to last dungeon was good, just not as good as the other dungeons, which I assume goes for final dungeon also. While I found the Pharos puzzle at the top rather creative despite the fact that it discriminates against the color-blind and the forgetful, I did not understand why they had to place four exactly identical Sigil of Sacrifices on one of the levels differing only by color, then making the only two Sigils that would actually make sense the wrong ones.

The whole Vayne thing is at least not as bad as FF1's Chaos. "Yes yes we know you've spent 95% of the game gathering elemental crystals, now shut up and fight this random time-traveling demonic dude who you've never seen before."

Quote:

Let me ask this - does it seem like FFXII strays from the forumla of FF in a bad way?

Not that I know of - the last two dungeons (haven't done Bahamut, just Pharos - presuming Bahamut's similar) are boring in the exact same way that they are boring in the other games. What you might look out for is the fact that most "chests" are barrels and give you crappy loot i. e. negligable gil or potions and rarely give you legendary items (CURSE YOU, ZODIAC SPEAR, CURSE YOU!). In fact, when I was over at a friends house, we played some other Final Fantasies, and I kept noticing similarities across the board.

Quote:

And what about the Bahamut? Where did that come from? I know they (kind of) explained it, but it just seemed to pop out of nowhere.

Well, you try thinking up a clever secret weapon for Vayne that doubles as a forboding, logically-the-next-step, final dungeon for the game!

Quote:

For example, the Occuria appear too late for my taste, and I feel we could have had more with the other judges (especially Drace)

Drace <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Joshelplex

Its fun, but you may never play it more thant once, like most RPGs.

Okay, firstly, as FFXII sorta demonstrates, it's somewhat possible to make a game in which "never play it more thant once" is not necessarily a bad thing - the world could be so expansive that you spend truckloads of time trying to fully explore it. Also, I must note Hard Mode or whatever at this point.

Krylo · 12-29-2006, 07:45 AM

I generally disagree. My only complaint with the plot is that the Occurian thing seemed left partially undone. I mean, all those other Occuria were up there and could probably make another cryst or attack humanity or something for our insolence.

However, I disagree that they showed up too late. They, first of all, have been there from the very beginning of the game in the form of Rex's ghost (to Vaan) and, later, the spirit of Lord Rassler (to Ashe). It becomes abundantly obvious in the tower of Pharos when Ashe moves to destroy the sun-cryst that Rassler's spirit has always been just an hallucination created by the Occurian to manipulate the holders of the shards into doing what they wanted.

And no, Venat was not after the shards. Venat was a rogue Occurian who was attempting to destroy them so that humanity could go and find their own route. Think of Venat as the Ivalice equivalent of Prometheus, bringing fire down to the people. While it's true that we never learned his motives in their entirity, I don't particularily think we had to. Gods splitting off from their covens to help humanity and then getting in trouble for it from the other gods IS a pretty common theme in mythology. I always just assumed he was doing it because he was tired of the other Occurian's arrogance and what have you... and I really didn't need a long annoying speech from him about it. Especially as it wouldn't have fit his character (flitting around invisibly and guiding one or two characters from the sidelines) at all.

Adghar · 12-30-2006, 05:29 PM

Silly me, I probably ignored all the plot points at which it demonstrated that Venat wanted to destroy the shards.

Anyway! Kinda off-topic, but it's an end-game problem, so I think I feel justified in noting it.

I just got the "Who's the Strongest?!" hunt. Getting the hunt itself was fine, but when I race Rikken, Vaan goes all sideways like a retarded monkey and it becomes, I believe, literally impossible to win the race. Is this a common problem?

CelesJessa · 01-04-2007, 02:11 AM

(hopefully this topic isn't too dead (that's what I get for disappearing for Christmas/New Years)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adghar

I just got the "Who's the Strongest?!" hunt. Getting the hunt itself was fine, but when I race Rikken, Vaan goes all sideways like a retarded monkey and it becomes, I believe, literally impossible to win the race. Is this a common problem?

I'm not sure but I've beat him two times out of the three times that I raced him. Vaan will follow that path no matter what you do, just keep pushing those buttons.

Also, as far as Venat, I guess I agree that he and the occuria didn't show up too late, as far as the progression of the storyline, maybe just that it didn't extend long enough after they were revieled. I was kind of confused about the Occuria and why they just suddenly stopped caring after the sun cryst was destroyed. I know who can assume what happened, and maybe it's just my want to be told exactly what was going on, but I felt like they left me to assume too much.
And as a little side note about Vayne, My brother pointed this out to me after beating the game, when you run into Vayne on the Bahamut, he asks you "Who are you" and I know it's a rhetorical question, but I couldn't help but note the irony of how true that question could be. He knew Ashe and Basche, but as far as everyone else in the party, there was such little interaction between them that he wouldn't have any idea who they are. Obviously he's not as random as some final bosses *coughFF9cough* but his pertend importance kind of bugged me.

Oh yeah, just a question, because either I wasn't paying attention or I missed something but why did Vayne kill his older brothers and then was so fond/protective of Larsa?

Regardless of all of the complaints I'm bringing up, I thoroughly enjoyed FF12, as far as the world, characters (although a lack of development), and gameplay, and I really loved playing it, so I guess that's all that matters, really.

12-22-2006, 12:26 AM	#1
CelesJessa DA-DA-DA-DAA DAA DAA DA DA-DAAAAAA! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Zanzibar Land Posts: 6,531	After Completing FF12 I wasn't sure were to post a discussion about this, since the last thread about FF12 was about, 4 or 5 pages back there, so I decided to start a new one (if a mod decides to close it or merge it with another FF12 thread, feel free) Also, as a forwarning, if you haven't completed FF12, beware looking through this thread. Anyway, I finished FF12 a few nights ago and, while I must admit that the game is nothing short of fantastic (as far as graphics, gameplay, etc) I found myself wanting more after finishing FF12, and it wasn't the good kind of wanting more. While I don't feel like there were too many loose ends by the end of the game, it still had a feeling of "there could have been so much more" to it. By the time you get to the final fight, it felt like that was about the time that they should throw in some huge plot twist or something. It just felt like it ended a few hours too early. By the end, I was expecting a lot more out of the Occuria, Venat, and that entire thing there. The Occuria kind of popped in, pretended to be a important plot point, than disappeared. Vayne had a lot of potential to be a super-evil bad guy, but he didn't do much directly to the plotline, it didn't feel. The characters didn't hardly even see Vayne once before the last battle. And what about the Bahamut? Where did that come from? I know they (kind of) explained it, but it just seemed to pop out of nowhere. The last two dungeons of FF12 were just not enjoyable at all and were like some kind of final-push to the ending. So before I rant longer, I'll just summarize with: It has been a long time since I have had so much fun exploring a world, or powering my characters up, but something about the story felt lacking. I read in a review somewhere that, compared to FFX, In 50 hours of gameplay, there is 50% less story and I would have to agree with them. In my opinion, they could have done so much more with it and made a true masterpiece. Is this just me expecting too much out of the game, or did anyone else share my feelings on this? __________________

12-23-2006, 01:16 PM	#4
Regulus Tera lol i dont even know Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,271	I really can not comment on this thread until I finish playing it (got a little sidetracked with the sidequests, and instead of going to the Pharos I'm still working my ass through the Necrohol of Nabudis), but even at this point in the game I feel that the game was kind of rushed at the beginning. For example, the Occuria appear too late for my taste, and I feel we could have had more with the other judges (especially Drace). It does take away some of the feeling, but taking into account the circumstances that this game had to go through during development I think it is understandable. In any case, I prefer a Final Fantasy with fifty percent more gameplay than plot. Last edited by Regulus Tera; 12-23-2006 at 01:22 PM.

12-29-2006, 07:45 AM	#8
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	I generally disagree. My only complaint with the plot is that the Occurian thing seemed left partially undone. I mean, all those other Occuria were up there and could probably make another cryst or attack humanity or something for our insolence. However, I disagree that they showed up too late. They, first of all, have been there from the very beginning of the game in the form of Rex's ghost (to Vaan) and, later, the spirit of Lord Rassler (to Ashe). It becomes abundantly obvious in the tower of Pharos when Ashe moves to destroy the sun-cryst that Rassler's spirit has always been just an hallucination created by the Occurian to manipulate the holders of the shards into doing what they wanted. And no, Venat was not after the shards. Venat was a rogue Occurian who was attempting to destroy them so that humanity could go and find their own route. Think of Venat as the Ivalice equivalent of Prometheus, bringing fire down to the people. While it's true that we never learned his motives in their entirity, I don't particularily think we had to. Gods splitting off from their covens to help humanity and then getting in trouble for it from the other gods IS a pretty common theme in mythology. I always just assumed he was doing it because he was tired of the other Occurian's arrogance and what have you... and I really didn't need a long annoying speech from him about it. Especially as it wouldn't have fit his character (flitting around invisibly and guiding one or two characters from the sidelines) at all. __________________ I am very tired.

12-30-2006, 05:29 PM	#9
Adghar Protoss Observer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The OotS forum Posts: 193	Silly me, I probably ignored all the plot points at which it demonstrated that Venat wanted to destroy the shards. Anyway! Kinda off-topic, but it's an end-game problem, so I think I feel justified in noting it. I just got the "Who's the Strongest?!" hunt. Getting the hunt itself was fine, but when I race Rikken, Vaan goes all sideways like a retarded monkey and it becomes, I believe, literally impossible to win the race. Is this a common problem? __________________ Смели Русский Хор

12-28-2006, 11:32 PM	#5
Lord of Joshelplex Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bird's Hill MB Posts: 4,055	Its fun, but you may never play it more thant once, like most RPGs. I enjoy the comabt, and being in a not kidded out Ivalice is nice.