character VERSUS character VERSUS another character VERSUS your mother

[BitVyper]

And none of the things you just posted are particularly more impressive than Cloud's feats. Some don't even specifically relate to physical strength, which was the issue.

Yes, he is both more badass and stronger than Cloud.

The first is irrelevant (and already addressed anyway), and you have failed to provide adequate evidence for the second.

[Kerensky287]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

Dante tries too hard. He's not bad-ass; he just REALLY wants to be. He's like that guy who dresses like a rap reject and walks down the street with a stupidly exaggerated swagger to show how much 'tude he has.

You have failed to provide sufficient evidence. He was DESIGNED to be cool, therefore - at least in the sense of the story - he IS cool.

Originally Posted by BitVyper

Wait, what? Dante is stronger than someone who wields a dozen or so buster-sword sized weapons at once, chops up buildings, pwns a guy who can stop a speeding motorcycle on a dime/toss it like a softball, and knocks city-dwarfing dragons out of the sky?

Has Dante been in a gamma explosion recently or something?

Note that the following links all include videos with big spoilers for DMC4.

1) I'd just like to point out that all those buster-sword-sized-weapons were actually all part of a single weapon that could come off and be used on their own. So technically he can wield a dozen or so fragments of a single buster-sword-sized weapon.

Also, in DMC4 Dante carries 6 weapons, one of which is the Pandora, which is a briefcase that transforms into many different forms, including a massive missile platform that Dante SITS INSIDE OF.

2) Dante chops up buildings from a mile or so away.

3) Dante pwns a guy who can lift up damn near anything and whip them at damn near anything with damn near any speed. But they become friends anyway.

4) Dante defeats many huge bosses, including one that can't be called anything but a "city dwarfer". (That last video really starts at 1:15 by the way... and includes some gameplay footage later on that you may want to pass on. Also, check out the marksmanship at 3:30.)

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

Dante tries too hard. He's not bad-ass; he just REALLY wants to be. He's like that guy who dresses like a rap reject and walks down the street with a stupidly exaggerated swagger to show how much 'tude he has. That's Dante: Spiderman 3 Peter Parker.

He wasn't bad in DMC 1, but every since then, he's been pretty much a parody of himself.

Near the beginning of 3, yes, but that was to show his evolution from some punk kid who just REALLY WANTS TO BE AWESOME, to an adult who understands what's at stake. Note the few ending cut scenes of 3.

In 4 he's only so flippant because he honestly isn't too worried about what's going on. Why should he be? He's, by then, slain two (three if we count the anime) beings capable of destroying the planet and killed his brother--twice. Further, his interactions with Nero are pretty much perfect 'big brother' interactions. The posturing and the messing around included.

I'm feelin' like you haven't even bothered playing four.

Wait, what? Dante is stronger than someone who wields a dozen or so buster-sword sized weapons at once

As Kerensky says--one buster-sword sized weapon.

chops up buildings

Never happens. He chops up large PIECES of a building, but Dante has chopped up larger pieces of magical stone than Cloud has chopped up pieces of mundane stone. The only Square character to chop full buildings in half is Sora, and that's pretty much because the keyblade is super magic--and Sora beats the fuck out of Cloud every time they cross swords, so... yeah. There's no Square character with the raw strength to cut buildings in twain--and if there were, it certainly wouldn't be Cloud.

...MAYBE Auron, he does stop Hercules's attack with one hand.

pwns a guy who can stop a speeding motorcycle on a dime/toss it like a softball

Dante defeats many characters FAR stronger than any of the three assholes in Advent Children. I don't know why you're even putting this in here--it's not like he beat any of them in a contest of pure strength or anything.

and knocks city-dwarfing dragons out of the sky?

Knocks city-dwarfing dragons out of the sky with the help of every single other final fantasy seven character, you mean. They propelled him that quickly and were responsible for a great deal of the force of his blow.


Your arguments are weak, laced with lies, and peppered with half truths. Might I suggest finding others?

[Mesden]

What impact that other characters gave him? The breadth of the attack was him running on Bahamut's back. I don't think once he landed and started running the other FFcharacters were doing anything there.

Just looked like he needed the help to jump a straight mile up in the air.

[Krylo]

Oh yeah, I misremembered that part.

He didn't just like, Cold Clock Bahamut out of the sky, either, though. It was a few attacks that effectively knocked him about. AND he used Braver which is infusing his sword with a bunch of magic power--so it's not straight strength.

Edit: He knocks him down twice. The first is with Braver, the second is with some OTHER sort of magic, AND empowered by Aeris, AND still using the momentum of the others as he sticks the blade in from the throw AND THEN runs along, with a clearly magically amplified cutting edge.

So, still. Half-truths.

[Mesden]

Magic? Just looks like his limit breakings to me.

But I mean how is half demon somehow not magical? It's not like either of them are just good ol' normal guys.

[Fifthfiend]

Arguably you can say that magic is sort of inherently built-in with Dante and just sort of part of his baseline badassedness whereas in Cloud's case it tends to function more as an external force but in the case of Braver or whatever limit-breaky type thing that's just some shit Cloud can just do, it's not like he needs to crack open a Materia for it or whatevs, Cloud using that on a monster isn't inherently different from Dante throwing around Jester or whatever style thing.

[Mirai Gen]

Wait, what? Dante is stronger than someone who wields a dozen or so buster-sword sized weapons at once, chops up buildings, pwns a guy who can stop a speeding motorcycle on a dime/toss it like a softball, and knocks city-dwarfing dragons out of the sky?

Okay even if we're not talking 'stronger', how about 'tougher'?

I mean this is the point I didn't want to argue - Dante has quite literally a bajillion times more durability than Cloud, and yes, this is taking the context outside of Hit Points and potions.

Come on, Krylo explained it :

End of DMC 1, he's hit by meteors, impaled by lasers, hit by dragons made entirely out of lava, hit by lava balls, hit by blasts of pure demonic energy from a being capable of destroying the planet, fights INSIDE Lava, and all of this outside of Devil Trigger without dying. I mean, it hurts, but it doesn't kill him. There's also Nightmare who runs him through with spikes from time to time without killing him over the course of the battle. He's also run through by spikes quite a few times without actually dying via traps. Oh, and the lava pillars, lava balls, and being smashed by a giant spider made of rock and molten rock as the first boss... being run through by about ten swords fighting Nelo Angelo... and being cut and stabbed by his massive sword...

DMC 3--Well there's the being eaten by a giant demon fish and fighting his way out of it's innards... oh, and the being frozen solid by the first boss without dying... and a few others. But DMC3 mostly focused on Dante vrs Vergil, as opposed to Dante vrs Giant shit--so most of his in game surviving shit that should have killed him is him surviving Vergil's attacks, which is only impressive if you know that Vergil is capable of cutting giant demons apart, slaying them in under a second.

DMC4--He's crushed multiple times by a giant statue the size of a large building with the power of a god, shot by beams of pure energy capable of destroying hunks of cement many many times larger than him, etc. etc. without dying. He is also chewed up, and stomped on by a frog the size of a small building, burned multiple times by flames capable of instantly reducing buildings to smoldering ash... Do I really need to list every boss fight?

The guy has had tons of shit happen to him and he's either gotten back up afterwards or just not even really cared.

If we start going back to in-game stats there's really no way to possibly be wrong, because we'd end up utilizing the Ultimate Level 99 Best Equipment Possible Can't Be Defeated build, and that's something Final Fantasy lets you do and Devil May Cry doesn't.

In fact that's probably the main reason "Every Final Fantasy character beats every non-Final Fantasy Character, Always."

[Krylo]

Arguably you can say that magic is sort of inherently built-in with Dante and just sort of part of his baseline badassedness whereas in Cloud's case it tends to function more as an external force but in the case of Braver or whatever limit-breaky type thing that's just some shit Cloud can just do, it's not like he needs to crack open a Materia for it or whatevs, Cloud using that on a monster isn't inherently different from Dante throwing around Jester or whatever style thing.

I'd say the difference is that in Dante his super strength is how he is. He doesn't have to concentrate or get pissed or evoke it in any manner. Cloud however has to activate his Limit Breaks, making them not just his baseline strength.

I could argue that Dante is probably capable of doing the same thing in devil trigger mode, but DT is also not Dante's baseline strength.

They are both effectively that strong when utilizing whatever inherent ability they have that they must activate--devil triggering, or limit breaking or whatever.

However--it's not fair to say "Well Cloud is super strong because he can--when mystically enhancing his strength--do things that Dante probably couldn't do, so long as Dante does not also use his mystical strength enhancement."

I mean, I'm not up in here saying that Dante can, on average, regenerate fast enough to pull his hand THROUGH A SWORD without any visible wound appearing because he heals that goddamn fast. That's his Devil Trigger increasing his regenerative abilities multiple times over.

So, yeah, basically what you're saying--but though I don't think it's unfair to include Braver or whatever else in a battle, I state that it IS unfair to use it as a basis for comparing the base strength of two characters.

Edit:

I mean this is the point I didn't want to argue - Dante has quite literally a bajillion times more durability than Cloud, and yes, this is taking the context outside of Hit Points and potions.

In all fairness, Cloud has had most of that stuff happen to him and survived, too. Fighting the weapons et. al. I wouldn't say Dante is more durable. They're about equal. Dante can regenerate, however, where Cloud can not.

But then Cloud can utilize materia and actual magic where Dante can not.

Mes is probably right about the fight in that it'd last forever and a day, with Dante beating Cloud and Cloud reviving, until one of them ran out of MP/whatever else.

Really, the outcome depends on whether we're allowing healing items. If we are, Cloud has over 1782 (9 base, times 99 for 99 max ethers, and then double that for 99 elixers too) lives, effectively. If we aren't, he has 9-12 (depending on how much MP he can steal with MP stealing attack materia). He's probably gonna lose if he has 9-12.

[Mirai Gen]

I won't deny that Cloud's magic has an upper hand on Dante. I just feel that comparing Final Fantasy hit points and magic I Can't Lose builds to Devil May Cry's gameplay ends out with nobody able to win because they effectively are playing Magic and just did an infinite combo, thereby never losing, 'winning' by default.

Which kind of means that you can pair Cloud against God and he'd win because God is unstatted in FF7, so Cloud would just never die cause he's got Phoenix and MP and...whatever else.

Really, the outcome depends on whether we're allowing healing items.

Agreed. Cloud would get the upper hand with any items. There are so many items in FF7 that allow whatever, Dante couldn't even really keep up (Especially considering the only damaging item in DMC is the Holy Water, which I doubt would even work on Dante). With items, to Cloud. Without items, Dante will win.