Now the doctor wont even see me

[Osterbaum]

The way I see it is; We here pay a lot of taxes. In return we get things like free health care, student aid and so on.

You play a lot less taxes, but all services cost more. So the net outcome is the same in the end, isn't it?

Which system is better? That is not for me to decide alone.

[Magus]

I live in a rural low-income area so the local medical center offers a sliding fee. A doctor's visit for me is in the range of 12-20 dollars. Prescriptions usually don't cost over 6-8 or something along those lines.

I have no need for insurance outside of something extreme, which is where I think a lot of people get stuck--they don't need the insurance for the everyday cases but for the extreme emergencies or dire illnesses, such as broken limbs or cancer. This is when lower income people get stuck in the insurance-less American system, not necessarily because they can't afford a regular doctor's visit for ear infection or the flu or what have you. A health care system based around lowering the costs of hospital visits and not really doing much past what is already done for regular doctor visits would probably save quite a bit of money over paying for every single medical problem people have. But I'm sure it's an all-or-nothing venture with the various politicians, there either has to be total universal healthcare or the bad one we have now. I'd prefer the former over the latter, but I think a middle-ground would probably be best.

Aerozord, are there any other physicians in your area? In nearby areas? Unless it's illegal for the doctor to deny you care for a cash payment, you'll probably have to find someplace else. It actually does sound discriminatory and may actually be unlawful, but I really can't say.

[TheSparrow]

Originally Posted by Runswithnopants

I forget, does Obama have a stated universal healthcare system? Or was that just something that the far right conservatives made up in order to cry about socialism?

Plan and calling for universal healthcare are two different things. He says he wants it, but has never given any sort of plan for it.

[Aanaren]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

Many companies have a horrible healthcare package.

Very true. I pay a $25 co-pay to see my doctor, which probably isn't that bad. Although it would be cheaper to go to a sliding scale with no insurance than pay my co-pay with insurance! However my ER co-pay is $150! That's about $100 more than any other ER co-pay I've had in my life.

Originally Posted by Aerozord

Most healthcare packages neglect basic things like medicine, check-ups, and physicals.

I used to work for a health insurance company and I've never seen anything like this. Some offer a separate prescription plan, but normally check-ups and physicals are standard with health insurance and the only things you don't have to fight them to pay.

[Melfice]

In the Netherlands you are forced to be insured.
As a child, you parents' insurance covers you.

However, insurances aren't extremely expensive, far as I can tell.
Can somebody tell me what a low-level health insurance costs in the US? Something that covers pretty much all basic treatments and consults for 100% and covers about 75-80% of medium sized treatments (filling of cavities at a dentist's, etc.)?

I pay €120 per month, which is $157 per month converted at today's exchange rate (27th January).


I'm guessing the biggest problem isn't with the healthcare organizations and doctors only wanting insured people, it's the insurance companies charging too much making people not get insurance.
But I don't know how much an insurance costs in the US, so I really don't think my theory can stand at the moment.

[Aanaren]

Well I pay around $150 per month, my employeer pays at least that as well, so on the low end, $300 per month. Nothing is covered 100% with any insurance I've ever seen. There's a $25 co-pay out of my pocket on my plan that I have to pay to see my Primary Care Physician (the doctor that participates in my plan that I chose from the book of participating doctors) if I'm sick, for physicals, or check-ups. Labs are extra and it depends on the lab. Seeing a specialist needs a referal and is $50 per visit out of pocket. Its $150 out of pocket if go to the ER.

This does not include dental, that's a separate plan. Its pretty rare to have health insurance and dental insurance in the same plan these days.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by Aanaren

I used to work for a health insurance company and I've never seen anything like this. Some offer a separate prescription plan, but normally check-ups and physicals are standard with health insurance and the only things you don't have to fight them to pay.

I cant afford health insurance so I haven't shopped around. Its possible the insurance I looked into was the exception and not the rule

Originally Posted by Melfice

In the Netherlands you are forced to be insured.
As a child, you parents' insurance covers you.

However, insurances aren't extremely expensive, far as I can tell.
Can somebody tell me what a low-level health insurance costs in the US? Something that covers pretty much all basic treatments and consults for 100% and covers about 75-80% of medium sized treatments (filling of cavities at a dentist's, etc.)?

I pay €120 per month, which is $157 per month converted at today's exchange rate (27th January).


I'm guessing the biggest problem isn't with the healthcare organizations and doctors only wanting insured people, it's the insurance companies charging too much making people not get insurance.
But I don't know how much an insurance costs in the US, so I really don't think my theory can stand at the moment.

as the above said, what you described by american standards is very expensive high end insurance. Dental and especially vision plans are seperate and often very limiting. You would have to be incredibly wealthy or dirt poor (so the goverment handles it) to be able to have an insurance that ever pays 100% on anything

Most Americans wish they had what you call low-end basic insurance

[Melfice]

Well... now that I think about it, dental IS actually separate.
I have no idea what I'd be paying without the dental package.
Probably about €30 less, I dunno.

Basic treatments means prescriptions for basic medicine, stitching, bandaging, simple diagnosing etc.
Those are essentially "free". And after last year you even got a refund if you never went to see the doctor.
Anything beyond that costs money, and seeing as the only thing I ever had to pay for was cleaning of the teeth and dental filling (for which I got about 70% covered by the insurance company) I don't know how much it would cover beyond what I mentioned.

And to be fair, now that I think about THAT too, it's not the lowest-end.
More like three-quarters up to medium, I suppose.

Still, the fact that even the lowest end in insurances costs more than that proves my point.
It ain't the doctors fault for only wanting insured people (which every doctor here also does), it's the insurance company's fault for setting their prices too high.

[Aerozord]

personally I think education and healthcare should be given freely. Your income should never be the reason you never get that lump checked out. Do you have any idea how many health problems I ignore because even if I could afford to get them looked at I couldn't afford the treatment.

Biggest issue is low-level stuff is never 100% covered, so typically you lose atleast 20-30 dollars for a simple exam, and you'd be suprised how long you are willing to let things go when you live in a region where its considered normal to get sick atleast half a dozen times a year. Medicine, honestly I have no idea, luckily since I lost all my healthcare I haven't had anything that serious.

On the other end are the expensive proceedures that are often covered but not completely, leaving out of pocket expenses too high for your average american to afford

[Zilla]

^ That's a very good point in that education and healthcare should be free.

One of the reasons healthcare costs so much is because the doctors are being compensated for the expensive education they obtained. College costs way too much now, even accounting for inflation. In a society that expects some level of college education, they certainly don't make it affordable and easily attainable, and that's probably a source of problem in America, one I hope Obama addresses.