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Odjn · 08-07-2009, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

Okay here's one i've been kicking around:

Mob War Royale: Vito Corleone vs. Michael Corleone vs Tony Soprano vs Scarface vs Nicky Santoro (Joe Pesci in Casino) vs. Bill the Butcher vs. whoever else you can think who would go in here.

They all preside over crime families in the same city where each vies for domination of prostitution, alcohol, theft, strongarm rackets, and other organized crime. As personnel each of them has anyone who worked for them in their movie or novel or whatever.

Ok, Soprano's out because while realistic he's head of New Jersey. Michael is thoughtful and planning, but probably can't handle any Pesci character's raw violence. Vito is too oldschool to keep up. So it's Scarface (a coked out sonuvabitch) vs. Pesci vs Bill the butcher. I don't know bill so I'm thinking it's down to Pesci vs Scarface. I don't think you can win against the Pesch in a straight out fight so I'm going with him.

Now if you had brought in like Al Capone that would be all him.

Fifthfiend · 08-07-2009, 03:03 PM

Basically my feeling about Capone is that he got owned canonically by Vito Corleone and real-lifically by Elliot Ness whereas half the guys I named basically got away with flat-out villainy for their entire fictionalized careers.

I feel that Vito has a big edge here just because he has probably the best support structure. Tessio and Clemenza are smart and loyal, Sonny is a vicious butcher of a field leader, and Luca Brasi is basically a force of nature. That said he has a big weakness in that as his story demonstrates, absent his leadership his organization is really weakened so if someone can get him off-guard at the outset that's it for them.

Tony Soprano might look at first glance like he'd be a pushover but he's got a lot of advantages going for him, not the least of which is that people tend to underestimate him. He's got what works as somewhere between a conscious knowledge of and raw instinct for how to grab and hold onto power and he's utterly ruthless about using it. The biggest threat in any protracted mob war is from your own people and that's something Tony doesn't really have to worry about from any of his top guys because they're all goddamn terrified of him; fear which he has instilled in a hundred ways large and small. Meanwhile when he finally did end up in open conflict with New York, he won, by 1. basically never giving a shit about any of the ceremonial trappings of the Mafia life and knowing that at the end of the day it's all about getting paid, 2. knowing how to develop assets and build trust, specifically turning the FBI agent who had previously investigated him into an asset.

Bard The 5th LW · 08-07-2009, 03:20 PM

I haven't seen enough maphia movies to safely enter this fight, but i have read and seen the Godfather, and i think that Michael and Vito could be counted as one force 9being family and all), which combining Michael's intelligence and Vito's leadership, i think they would make a definitely powerful enemy for any one willing to fight against them.

Fifthfiend · 08-07-2009, 03:42 PM

I split up Michael and Vito because together and with the strengths of each of their versions of the Corleone Family they're just unbeatable. It's like putting Tidus and Cloud on the same team. The book itself goes to a lot of trouble to keep their efforts split up for what I feel is basically that reason.

Archbio · 08-07-2009, 03:50 PM

I'd say there's a serious deficiency in the "unhinged, pig feeding gangsters" category in this fight with the exclusion of Bricktop (from Snatch) and Al Swearingen (from Deadwood), but they might just not be in the same weight class as the others. Except maybe the latter if it came down to a personal fight, if a situation doesn't occur that makes him regret never learning to use a gun. Like one episode's end credit song says: "And can't nobody win over me. When I got a razor. Man, I always got a razor! And I don't never miss."

Lets not even mention Mac the Knife.

I would bet, however, on Professor Moriarty. Would the others even know what hit them? The Napoleon of Crime would extend his influence with vast and secretive machinations and sniping (and other, setting appropriate innovations) for as long as he could. Maybe that's where Vito would have an edge, in perceiving Moriarty's hand.

BitVyper · 08-14-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Basically my feeling about Capone is that he got owned canonically by Vito Corleone and real-lifically by Elliot Ness whereas half the guys I named basically got away with flat-out villainy for their entire fictionalized careers.

But he also had Sean Connery killed in Untouchables. That makes up for a lot.

Odjn · 08-15-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

Basically my feeling about Capone is that he got owned canonically by Vito Corleone and real-lifically by Elliot Ness whereas half the guys I named basically got away with flat-out villainy for their entire fictionalized careers.

I feel that Vito has a big edge here just because he has probably the best support structure. Tessio and Clemenza are smart and loyal, Sonny is a vicious butcher of a field leader, and Luca Brasi is basically a force of nature. That said he has a big weakness in that as his story demonstrates, absent his leadership his organization is really weakened so if someone can get him off-guard at the outset that's it for them.

Tony Soprano might look at first glance like he'd be a pushover but he's got a lot of advantages going for him, not the least of which is that people tend to underestimate him. He's got what works as somewhere between a conscious knowledge of and raw instinct for how to grab and hold onto power and he's utterly ruthless about using it. The biggest threat in any protracted mob war is from your own people and that's something Tony doesn't really have to worry about from any of his top guys because they're all goddamn terrified of him; fear which he has instilled in a hundred ways large and small. Meanwhile when he finally did end up in open conflict with New York, he won, by 1. basically never giving a shit about any of the ceremonial trappings of the Mafia life and knowing that at the end of the day it's all about getting paid, 2. knowing how to develop assets and build trust, specifically turning the FBI agent who had previously investigated him into an asset.

Vito is Old School Mafia that feels he can walk around buying oranges all alone and be ok with it. He's dead first.

Tony got lucky because Phil Leotardo was a complete hardassed idiot. He was the absolute worst guy to lead because of his refusal to accept anything he didn't dictate. Half the times he got away from FBI traps was because, simply, he got lucky- remember Meadow's lamp?

Arhra · 08-15-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odjn

See I would agree but male lions pretty much only fight male lions and wolves are trained to hunt in packs against much stronger prey while lionesses hunt alone, so it's much more of an even fight.

I've seen footage of lions taking down an elephant during a drought. It was freaky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masaki-kun

A battalion of Warhammer 40000's Imperial Guard vs. a battalion of Stormtroopers. For each IG vehicle the Stormtroopers get to field one of their own, IG gets Commissar Yarick, Stormtroopers get Vader, and no Space Marines or other Jedi are allowed to interfere. Also no Death Star or Exterminatus.

I would have to give it to the Imperial Guard. They can shoot straight.

Also, yeah, the poor guardsmen have to go up against things like eight foot tall power armoured ubermensch (sworn to the service of dark gods!), swarms of alien bugs that strip planets bare, space elves, unkillable robot zombies and daemons!

Stormtroopers have managed to get their ass handed to them by Ewoks.

I'd peg IG vehicles as superior too. Their equivalent to an AT-AT would be what, a Baneblade super-heavy tank? That particular matchup would possibly be the shortest fight ever...

Although AT-ST's and Sentinels are frighteningly similar...

Still, no contest.

Vader does complicate things a little, but Comissar Yarrick is pretty hardcore. Since Yarrick is not as well known, we're talking about a man who can shoot lasers from his (bionic) eye and who, after getting his arm ripped off by an Ork warboss, killed it and took its powerclaw to replace his arm.

I honestly don't know who'd win between those two.

BitVyper · 08-15-2009, 11:27 PM

Yeah, I think the Stormtroopers are proper fucked here. Imperial Guard live in a universe where war is literally all there is. Stormtroopers live in a universe that hasn't had a real war in at least fifteen years or so, and that one was staged from the beginning. Although to be fair:

Quote:

Stormtroopers have managed to get their ass handed to them by Ewoks.

Ewoks can throw friggin boulders man. They may look like teddybears, but those fuckers are strong.

Edit: And Vader is screwed. He isn't deflecting solid ammunition. Bullets are faster than SW energy weapons, available at much higher firing rates which would overwhelm his defenses even if they weren't, and even if he could move that fast, he'd still end up with globs of molten metal on his helmet. I'm not saying he gets gunned down outright, but he can and will be overwhelmed by a decent number of soldiers at a distance. Although if he COULD react fast enough, he could pull the energy shield dealie like he did on Han. That might save him a couple of times before he's overwhelmed.

Arhra · 08-15-2009, 11:33 PM

Ah, so they're more like koalas really.

Have you ever held a koala? They're built like a brick! I swear, if one fell out of a tree, it would dent the earth, get up, snort and wander off unharmed.

08-07-2009, 03:03 PM	#2002
Fifthfiend for all seasons Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 19,409	Basically my feeling about Capone is that he got owned canonically by Vito Corleone and real-lifically by Elliot Ness whereas half the guys I named basically got away with flat-out villainy for their entire fictionalized careers. I feel that Vito has a big edge here just because he has probably the best support structure. Tessio and Clemenza are smart and loyal, Sonny is a vicious butcher of a field leader, and Luca Brasi is basically a force of nature. That said he has a big weakness in that as his story demonstrates, absent his leadership his organization is really weakened so if someone can get him off-guard at the outset that's it for them. Tony Soprano might look at first glance like he'd be a pushover but he's got a lot of advantages going for him, not the least of which is that people tend to underestimate him. He's got what works as somewhere between a conscious knowledge of and raw instinct for how to grab and hold onto power and he's utterly ruthless about using it. The biggest threat in any protracted mob war is from your own people and that's something Tony doesn't really have to worry about from any of his top guys because they're all goddamn terrified of him; fear which he has instilled in a hundred ways large and small. Meanwhile when he finally did end up in open conflict with New York, he won, by 1. basically never giving a shit about any of the ceremonial trappings of the Mafia life and knowing that at the end of the day it's all about getting paid, 2. knowing how to develop assets and build trust, specifically turning the FBI agent who had previously investigated him into an asset. __________________ check out my buttspresso

08-07-2009, 03:42 PM	#2004
Fifthfiend for all seasons Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 19,409	I split up Michael and Vito because together and with the strengths of each of their versions of the Corleone Family they're just unbeatable. It's like putting Tidus and Cloud on the same team. The book itself goes to a lot of trouble to keep their efforts split up for what I feel is basically that reason. __________________ check out my buttspresso

08-07-2009, 03:50 PM	#2005
Archbio Data is Turned On Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,980	I'd say there's a serious deficiency in the "unhinged, pig feeding gangsters" category in this fight with the exclusion of Bricktop (from Snatch) and Al Swearingen (from Deadwood), but they might just not be in the same weight class as the others. Except maybe the latter if it came down to a personal fight, if a situation doesn't occur that makes him regret never learning to use a gun. Like one episode's end credit song says: "And can't nobody win over me. When I got a razor. Man, I always got a razor! And I don't never miss." Lets not even mention Mac the Knife. I would bet, however, on Professor Moriarty. Would the others even know what hit them? The Napoleon of Crime would extend his influence with vast and secretive machinations and sniping (and other, setting appropriate innovations) for as long as he could. Maybe that's where Vito would have an edge, in perceiving Moriarty's hand. __________________ 6201 Reasons to Support Electoral Reform. Last edited by Archbio; 08-07-2009 at 05:38 PM.

08-15-2009, 11:33 PM	#2010
Arhra Ara ara! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Neo Venezia Posts: 5,013	Ah, so they're more like koalas really. Have you ever held a koala? They're built like a brick! I swear, if one fell out of a tree, it would dent the earth, get up, snort and wander off unharmed. __________________ This post is a good source of Ara ara, ufufu.* *These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This post is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

08-07-2009, 03:20 PM	#2003
Bard The 5th LW Feelin' Super! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,191	I haven't seen enough maphia movies to safely enter this fight, but i have read and seen the Godfather, and i think that Michael and Vito could be counted as one force 9being family and all), which combining Michael's intelligence and Vito's leadership, i think they would make a definitely powerful enemy for any one willing to fight against them.