I Can't Believe it's Not Murder!

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

so is saying violence is the inherent solution. I would never claim that total pacifism is the only solution to an issue but there are plenty of issues with violent approaches. The biggest being the large risk of replacing one form of oppression with another.

Originally Posted by Osterbaum

Non-violence for the sake of nonviolence or some sort of perceived liberal or middle-class ideal is ineffective. What get's results is a diversity of tactics and strict non-violence is often a way for certain people to monopolize the power in a movement and render the movement essentially ineffectual.

You quoted Osterbaum saying that diversity amongst the tactics of the oppressed is the best solution, and seemingly presented a counter argument that involved citing the Civil Rights movement. A thing that is basically a case study in the exact thing he was talking about.

The people who were racist in America and basically uniformly across the world, who wanted African Americans and other minorities to drink inferior water and live substandard lives for being born who they are didn't wake up one morning totally reformed and ready to fight for the rights of others because they'd heard the absolute perfect argument the night before and had come to realize the error of their ways. Sure, some people change their ways! Good on em! But most really, really. Didn't. Don't, even. They were still down there, fighting and screaming and hollering that they deserved to shit all over other people because it was their god given right, and the thing that stopped them wasn't posters, books, TV or music. They thought that way all up into the grave and some even still continue to live and breathe that way right this freaking second. The thing that stopped them from acting on those thoughts was law, action and fucking fear. They couldn't count on the Sheriff to cover for them when they lynched someone as openly because federal bureaus and the media were breathing down their necks. They couldn't chase a civil rights group out of town because like Bitviper quoted those groups became willing to defend themselves. They couldn't fucking get away with it, and even that didn't actually change the "Culture". That culture still exists! It can't be educated out because the people who propagate it will separate from the rest of the society that tries to teach them otherwise, and take their children with them. You can't show them some masterpiece media or art related to these things and expect them to change because they don't stop and think about how it applies to their perspective! They literally could not care less about it!


End of the day what changes society and motivates people who are bigoted or racist or what have you to not act on those beliefs is fear. The British government didn't have a happy ending change of heart and give control of India to its rightful owners and populace out of kindness or a cultural change on their part, they did it because they feared what would happen if the Indian populace got fed up of their shit right in the middle of World War 2. Controlling the situation, one way or another was no longer possible. The Republican party of today is torn between the fear of losing their core constituents and totally being eclipsed in the next generation. Andrew Jackson didn't fear the Cherokee, so their nonviolent attempts to prevent him from removing them from their lands were totally ignored. He literally didn't give a damn. Fear fear fear fear.