The Big Big Thread of Religious Discussion

[Lockeownzj00]

Originally Posted by Loki, the Fallen

I don’t believe in controlling these things...

How? That's the only way to prevent their 'bad' usages.

We must stop thinking about thoughts and ideas as harmless wisps in the wind. They are real and they exist, and they have tangible effects on our society in every way. You can't and shouldn't be able to go around with unjustified ideas unchecked. It is dangerous, because ideas are memetic. And bad ideas spread just as much as good ones.

Originally Posted by Loki, the Fallen

But here’s the best part, from every post I have read by you it appears you wish to control this thought; that you wish to have humans only believe in your belief. What is with that?

Yes, I do. Just like I believe no one should be racist. I don't think any intelligent person would be angered by a world sans racism. Do I think it's realistic? Not necessarily. But moral relativism is a waste of time and it only impedes progress. Yes things would be better off if everyone agreed on this. This is the point I have been making the entire time. You've distilled the entire debate into a single sentence that only states factually my position. "Religion is a waste of time, it would be better if no one were religious."

I don't believe the world to be this endless tipping of scales which must be balanced out. Everybody isn't right. Certain ideas hold more water. Certain beliefs systems more accurately represent reality. It's the 21st century. There is no excuse for this anymore. All I can say is wait a few years and you'll see the decline yourself. It has to happen. It will.

Originally Posted by 42Petunias

You can't say all the great things that science has brought us, and then say everything bad that Religon has.

I'm not being unfair. I dare you to come up with a mark on humankind made by religion that hasn't been negative.

Many have pointed out the negative uses of technology. But even these negative uses prove nothing: as Harris said in a quote I related earlier, these misuses aren't examples of being "too reasonable." There's no such thing as being too logical and rational in this case. In fact, these misuses are in the same realm of illogic as religion, so that's no point against science.

Originally Posted by 42Petunias

Secondly, religon has definitly done good things. They may not outweigh the bad effects, but they are still there. religon does make many people happy, it gives people a purpose in life, and while it might not create feelings of charity, it helps, and serves as an organizational tool for many charities. Leaving that much stuff out and portraying it as a complete list of the things each has brought us is misleading.

Once again I point out that you have nothing solid to fall back on. The only thing you can credit to realigion is "making people feel good," which I've spoken about ad nauseam. Placebo can make you feel good too, but that only goes so far.

A "purpose" in life? What does that even mean? Doctors Without Borders isn't a purpose? Becoming an athlete isn't a purpose? The only "purpose" religion gives you is that of being mentally oscitant. Your justifications are ever still vague and formless, and that just can't pass when it comes down to it.

Originally Posted by Nique

It's entirely concivable, and likely, that religion has been involved as motivator in many technilogical developments in the past. Printing presses, anyone? So locke, you can't really attribute 'advancement' to scientific interests alone. Some people also do it for the money?

My point, Nique, wasn't the motivator. Even if religion was the motivation, the point is that only reason produces results. I'd like to dispell once again any notion that religion somehow is more advantageous for this mythical form of "reason" it uses called faith. My point in that list was showing that all of us sitting in our chairs right now typing on our computers could only be possible because of rational thought. If inventors thought religiously--if they built everything on "faith--" we would still be "peeling bananas," so to speak. There just is no such thing as a practical application of faith, either in philosophy or any other realm of life.