Pokemon Umbral Theatre 1: Where All the Lurkers...Ah...Lurk

[Menarker]

Gem, if you really want to be being part of the "balancing process", you should be reading the entire thing, not skimming it and only reading sections.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Oh, really? God, you people need to tell me these things. In that case, sure. Let the 4th accessory be Slayer level 3 if it really must. Though then again, level 3 is still stronger than 4, what with the stats boost. Leaving it at 4 would be preferable.
Look, Menarker, do you really need a fourth one? Really?

I barely care about the stat boost one shit to be honest. They are like the effects of leftovers. Additive bonuses as small as that are barely noticeable and don't seem to contribute to combat. It's why I'm replacing leftovers for all future mission with things like Lum Berries, since I don't think AB even bothers to deal with them. It's nice to have them just to know that it is at that point that a character's physical strength should rise at that point, but I can't possibly contribute that upgrade in a dicussion of any battle plans we make. I only see the stat boost as being a way to say that the character stays proportionally effective against the increasing toughness of foes.

For passive upgrades, I'd want something that is not additive so much as "on/off" or binary code. I either clear cut have that ability/item or I don't. Immunity to a pokemon type? I can claim that as a damn useful ability since I can actually take that in account for a plan. Double Attack? DAMN SKIPPY. I would know that my character has that capability. But stat boost? That's more gravy than anything, since I can't even tell how strong my character is compared to my allies, nevermind my enemies!

With the above leftovers/Lum berry example: If my pokemon gets hurt but then doesn't get hit for some turns later, then a strong foe hits it and presumably knocks it out. I might debate endlessly about how that pokemon should have survived due to regenerating enough to regain health closer to its max. But then AB might say it was just that strong and my pokemon was weak enough to knock out in one hit. There is no solid basis on which the item actually supports the pokemon since it's like 2 kids playing cop and robbers with pretend guns and one kid protesting "I shot you" "No, you missed" "You Liar!" "Nuh uh! I shoot you instead and you're dead now!".
Now, with the Lum berry, if AB tries to afflict my pokemon with a status effect and forgets to change it back, I can say "AB, my pokemon should be status free due to the Lum Berry." and AB would fix it because that's a clear cut effect of what should happen because the item/ability straight out demands that is what happens in those circumstances. The same is why I don't view stat improvements with anything other than saying "Renny's physical strength has grown to keep up proportionally effective against the scaling enemy difficulty."

So, you're basically telling me that for my level 3, you want me to only have one useful ability (the immunity) and I lose both Double Attack and a 4th accessory (Which you proceeded to say I can't have later on due to balance). I say you nerfed WAY TOO FAR.

And I've reconsidered accessories.
The way it is now, we get one free use, and then every use costs 50. Is 35 rage now the standard cost, or the cost after the upgrade? Don't have time to check.
Anyway, how about this: We drop the rage cost by another 5-10 rage, but remove the "initial free use". Makes accessories more tactical, I think, and a bit more important in combat. Your thoughts, AB?

The way it was going to go, the dropping down to 35 rage after the one free use was supposed to an upgrade at like Overblade 1 or so, not standard. Also, you're making things way more expensive, especially if Renny loses the ability to Double Attack and gain rage that way.

How the hell does dropping the cost a bit and removing the free use make them "more important"? If anything, that makes them LESS important and less useful since I'd only horde rage for my techniques and typically more useful actions. Pokebrid's Paradigm Shift which you say to leave in its cluncky 60 rage 3 turn effect also stops Renny from getting rage.

Let's see... What does Renny have to spend rage on to begin with? There is Paradigm Shift for pokebrid. There is Testament Drives, Divide, and Focus for trainers. There are Renny's Co-Op Tech and Love Tech. And there is presumably the Slayer's Sweep and Overpower (Status Cure) and of course the accessories.

Clearly, I would be hordeing my rage for my "more importatant stuff" like Renny's techs and maybe Sweep or Testament Drives! Stuff like Paradigm Shift and accessories remain unused because you can't convince me to see them having any significant use compared to the other abilities when they are hampered with their relatively lower power at proportionally higher costs!
I mean look at one of the accessories that cures status conditions? Slayers later on get Overpower which does the same but costs less! Toxic accessory? The poison slayer weapon is sure to be SO much better at doing the job (and that's not counting the fact that practically every pokemon can use Toxic, hence going Pokebrid outstrips its use.)
Clearly, I feel there is something wrong with your analysis or even how you're processing all this.

Waitwaitwait.
He wouldn't get the accessory slot, obviously! Just as he wouldn't be able to use both a pokebrid action and a trainer action in the same turn. He'd get to come up with new accessories, and he'd get to select 3 trainer actions and one pokebrid action, but he'd only be able to use the benefits of one of those every turn, obviously (otherwise he'd be getting more power because he invests in a larger variety of classes, and that'd be imbalanced, since for everyone to have equal strength, everyone else would have to go "variety" as well). And for Slayer, that translates into removing the accessory slot. That is acceptable, I hope?

What does an item slot have to do with actions at all, especially since you're intending to also remove the first free use of the accessory? Not being able to use pokebrid action and trainer action at the same time makes sense. But carrying capacity is not the same as trying to multi-task.

You're stacking way too many nerfs at the same time and they are adding up to be something I feel is drastically unfair since you also intend to remove Double Attack which is a source of rage gathering. Oh, and also moving to maintain Paradigm shift as it is, thus Renny is FURTHER having rage problems by being unable to gain rage when attacking for 3 turns as opposed to only not being able to gain rage on the turn he uses it.

Let's see, you want to remove Double Attack. You want to have Renny have 4th accessory slot at level 4 not have 4th accessory slot PERIOD for some obscure reason related to my triple classing although saying that other people who take slayer levels can. Remove the free use of accessory. Hampered Paradigm Shift which compounds rage problems. And what do you say I'm getting for it? A token drop in rage for accessories?

My reaction is: WHAT THE HELL GUYS? You can't honestly expect me to believe this is remotely fair. This is clearly nerfing, not balancing! I'd almost think this is character/player specific griefing.

How about we all wait for AB to post his demon class so we know what standards to raise or lower upgrades? This is clearly a game of the blind leading the blind at the moment.

Anyhow, I got to get to work. See you all later.