A conversation about conversations about bigotry

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Ryong

I'm not exactly the only one who dug this hole.

With that out of the way:

I misinterpreted a post based on a member's track record. This is not a concept so alien to any of you as this is exactly what I've been talking about for the last few posts as it being a thing that keeps happening with mine. I have to admit I'm pissed because it seems the only way for anything I say to matter is if I don't agree 100% with someone, as otherwise I'm ignored. That and I keep being thrown in "all of you" arguments where I don't agree with shit that the group does or thinks. I would like if my opinion mattered when I'm right too, not just when I'm wrong.

Terex, I don't think anyone goes off the handle when people post about a subject that is agreed on being a bad thing, but Liz has in the past, managed to portray her points in ways that make most people who would normally agree, disagree. Of course bigotry is bad, of course sexism is bad, of course racism, transphobia, homophobia, outlawed gay marriages and I could go on and on and on on how all this shit and more is so terrible, but then a point gets made in a way that either you agree with the same fervor of the person who made it or you're terrible forever, no better than people who openly support all that and suddenly you're under fire for it.

Of course you're not the only person that dug it. You were just the one in it.

Well you and Bells.

That said: What I meant by that post, for both you and Bells, because I believe that you both actually believe more or less the same things I do about sexism etc. is that you should both step back for a bit.

Really read over what has been said, maybe re-read what Liz said and my own recent elucidations about the male gaze, and then just let that ruminate for a while. Let it bounce around in your head for say, fifteen minutes, maybe a half hour. However long it takes you to not be defensive, because no one is trying to attack you, and then ask yourself:

"Are they saying things I actually disagree with?"

Because I don't think anyone really is, Liz included. And then, ask yourself, "Do I want to argue over something I basically agree with?"

Like, I don't know about you, but I get in big messy arguments (most often with Pochy, sometimes with Liz, sometimes with other people here) over silly things like, well, like what I'm talking about here.

And when it's all done I feel a little silly for having gotten into an argument with someone I basically agree with.

And as, from my perspective, you basically agree with Liz, Snake, Grim, Marc, Terex, Pochy, etc. about the important things here, I'm thinking maybe it's just best to step back and let what they're saying sink in a bit.

Maybe I'm wrong!

Maybe I missed something! God knows I didn't have time to fully read the whole mess of posts that happened today while I was at work, but from my perspective I think everyone could just come to a basic agreement on a few things:

1: That Sexism/Homophobia/Transphobia/whatever else is bad.

2: That we should do what we can to reduce bad things.

And

3: That it's kind of shitty to leap to conclusions about someone's tone/intent and attack them, whether directly or indirectly, over it. In fact that's kinda what Pip felt was happening to him!

Now on 3, that's pretty much a natural thing to do, and I don't think anyone is saying you/Bells/whomever else are bad people for maybe doing it a little bit. They're just trying to say that, hey, to us it looks like you're doing this thing, and maybe you could quit doing this thing.

And, as that you basically, right here: "I misinterpreted a post based on a member's track record." admitted that you maybe did that a little, and, in the following sentence, pointed out that you're cognizant of how shitty it is to be on the receiving end of that (as you feel you have been), I think that a full agreement of:

"Hey yeah I did a thing, and I'm sorry I did a thing, but I'll try to refrain from doing that thing in the future," isn't that impossible or far off.

That's what I meant by the hole thing. It wasn't really meant as a dig* at you at all.

In fact, quite the opposite! I think you're a pretty alright guy in general and, for that reason, I think that if you disentangle from this and think it over you'll come out of it looking and feeling better.

*Get it? Because digging a hole and then. . . yeah you get it.