Please have a look on my OOTS styled comic based on Baldur�s Gate - again!

Leper Messiah TR · 07-24-2008, 01:30 PM

first of all, I DO care about your answers, and I DON�T think myself perfect, else I wouldn�t spend hours on answering your posts...

this IS a beta, I know that the comic will never be "perfect" for you but one day it might become "perfect" for me and I believe I can gain additional insight through your comments

but there�s exactly 3 things I can�t take out of the project:
1. D&D
2. Baldur�s Gate
3. stick figure style
- so demanding these 3 things to go is missing the point of the feedback I am trying to get

@ Cid Highwind
-because dice were invented in the ancient times, so I *can* assume them to exist in a medieval-based fantasy world
-the dice part is not meant in the D&D, but an actual game of dice

-eh, and "words" like MNBRVCNP! aren�t?! http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0247.html
tell me how it isn�t the same exact thing, except that I use actual words that can be looked up in the net anyway; also I assume that after like 10 usages of a nadsat word someone who tried to understand would most likely read them like they were English
I do not use Nadsat for no reason

the gender contradistinction in this style is displayed exclusively by body shape - she hasn�t a rectangle body and is therefore not male (of course when a character is wearing a robe you can�t necessary tell the gender), and I had Imoen think "her" (page 3) which ultimately confirms this
she is meant to look kinda boyish anyway...

@Fifthfiend
why would anybody read anything?
I�m a comic artist (love the sound of that

), not some marketing guy, so I don�t know...

why would anybody find anything interesting? - again, how would I know? the story is interesting for me, so it might be interesting for somebody else than me, or not. only one way to find out...

about the "I don�t know what�s going on" thing:
you have to take the 3 strips as a "situation", not as the whole thing; if you read it carefully it IS possible to understand the situation as such without having background knowledge, and with every strip more things will be revealed until in the very end all things go full circle; I�m not the first to do this kind of storytelling (like I previously said, see the SAW movies for an example)

@ BraveFencer Shinryuu
of course people don�t watch Family Guy and American Day, do they?

(they�re Simpsons rip-offs if you didn�t know that)
how many people actually know OOTS anyway: 50000? maybe a 100000, but definitely not more, not necessarily my target audience, if I would have one

@Noncontradictory
I did never expect expectations

TSWATG is a very slow-paced story this is the key point of this whole post
if you guys argue that your patience is not high enough to read the comic I write thoroughly then I can�t counter this, if you say it is a waste of time because it�s wordy and doesn�t contain the correct information that is necessary to understand the big picture I can�t do nothing about it since TSWATG will always be slow paced and wordy because it is meant to be realistic, and it isn�t boring for me, if it is for you - I can�t change your penchants
my comic is about feelings and thoughts, about *who* knows *what*, about philosophical ideas - I agree that this is likely to be more boring than anything else, e.g. D&D rule jokes, but this is the only way I can do it because the story is a part of myself so much
(but "yes, there will be blood" - lots of it)

@Mirai Gen
ok, the crouch kick is a remnant from 2nd edition (which lasted 9 strips), which had a very different ambition (more comically), that has been scrapped for the current 3rd edition (with the next look update it will be 3.5)
it remained for the following reason: if you actually trudged through the 3 strips, you might have realized Imoen�s utter affection for Aina that goes to the extent of her being very clingy and even violent (I think this has been made very clear in the first 3), the kick is to hint at how far Imoen might go in this eagerness, to *cure* Aina she actually *hurts* her

the dice part is actually a bluff

- it (which is actually the D-story (did I say epic already?)) has no direct connection with the A-story but a very loose indirect one (yeah and I know people are not too fond of bluffs in the very first strip, but that�s the kind of storyteller I am)

as seen in 13, Aina has actually told the whole story to Imoen already, and more and more of what happened that night will be seen through flashbacks

like I told you, OOTS (and 8BIT) are "inside out" stories, OOTS started very simple with like 5 new facts introduced in every strip, I have like 30-50 (if you want I can name them for you for any strip, I�m not overexaggerating)because I do an "outside in" story, it is just impossible for me to start that simple

@phil
again with the bubbles? *sigh*
there should be no problem with the bubble order, my speech or thought bubbles ALWAYS go from left to right, and from top to bottom (with the left-right axis having priority), in the case that multiple bubbles are used in a panel the same rules do occur

I did a test comic with the original OOTS panel size and found out that there would be no room for the speech bubbles, therefore I raised the panel height 50% or something (can�t remember), I can�t extend the panel sizes any more (because it looks stupid e.g. when nothing is said in a panel) and scaling down the type makes it hard to read
so, yeah, I do run out of room all the time, but I can�t help it at the moment, maybe I gain some insight in the process

also, in OOTS the speech bubbles nearly always extend the borders of the panel too

about the height thing: every medium character WILL still have the same size (which means I use the same base model to build it (you can see some of those in my 2nd post on page 1)) EXCEPT Aina and Imoen, the latter of which is somewhat taller; the height thing is one of the "hardcoded" features of TSWATG, which means it can�t be scrapped without the whole story going to hell

I think the intro part in the beginning of #11 makes it clear that it is the first one

I had to make a point in the first 3, even if you can�t see that point just now, that is why they were 2-pagers, I can�t just cut a strip after a random panel

about the plagiarism thingy:
I don�t CLAIM to have copyright, and it is meant to be a non-commercial project to the end anyway
the story is based on BG, but with severe extensions and tweaks
the characters are my own

and about the wordy thingy:
I used the exact amount of words Imoen and Aina would actually use

Imoen talks much, slangy and fast
Aina talks little, overly complicated and rather slow
like I said somewhere above, slow-paced is the key word

"Get up, goth chick" and "That guy is dead." Oh, and "Let's go to town."
not even one of them hits the mark
and "goth" is so wrong for so many reasons...

@ grthwllms
that�s the difference between oots and my comic:
strip #11 could as well be #490

thank you for your comments!

PS:
and for the last thought of my post:
can the style support the story?
I do think it can, with additions I have already begun to introduce, like the sad/passionate "reverse angry brow".
I don�t need really complicated shots (in the beginning), and once more characters are introduced the repetitiveness of the main 2 will be gravely alleviated.

07-24-2008, 01:30 PM	#14
Leper Messiah TR Troopa Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 47	first of all, I DO care about your answers, and I DON�T think myself perfect, else I wouldn�t spend hours on answering your posts... this IS a beta, I know that the comic will never be "perfect" for you but one day it might become "perfect" for me and I believe I can gain additional insight through your comments but there�s exactly 3 things I can�t take out of the project: 1. D&D 2. Baldur�s Gate 3. stick figure style - so demanding these 3 things to go is missing the point of the feedback I am trying to get @ Cid Highwind -because dice were invented in the ancient times, so I can assume them to exist in a medieval-based fantasy world -the dice part is not meant in the D&D, but an actual game of dice -eh, and "words" like MNBRVCNP! aren�t?! http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0247.html tell me how it isn�t the same exact thing, except that I use actual words that can be looked up in the net anyway; also I assume that after like 10 usages of a nadsat word someone who tried to understand would most likely read them like they were English I do not use Nadsat for no reason the gender contradistinction in this style is displayed exclusively by body shape - she hasn�t a rectangle body and is therefore not male (of course when a character is wearing a robe you can�t necessary tell the gender), and I had Imoen think "her" (page 3) which ultimately confirms this she is meant to look kinda boyish anyway... @Fifthfiend why would anybody read anything? I�m a comic artist (love the sound of that), not some marketing guy, so I don�t know... why would anybody find anything interesting? - again, how would I know? the story is interesting for me, so it might be interesting for somebody else than me, or not. only one way to find out... about the "I don�t know what�s going on" thing: you have to take the 3 strips as a "situation", not as the whole thing; if you read it carefully it IS possible to understand the situation as such without having background knowledge, and with every strip more things will be revealed until in the very end all things go full circle; I�m not the first to do this kind of storytelling (like I previously said, see the SAW movies for an example) @ BraveFencer Shinryuu of course people don�t watch Family Guy and American Day, do they? (they�re Simpsons rip-offs if you didn�t know that) how many people actually know OOTS anyway: 50000? maybe a 100000, but definitely not more, not necessarily my target audience, if I would have one @Noncontradictory I did never expect expectations TSWATG is a very slow-paced story this is the key point of this whole post if you guys argue that your patience is not high enough to read the comic I write thoroughly then I can�t counter this, if you say it is a waste of time because it�s wordy and doesn�t contain the correct information that is necessary to understand the big picture I can�t do nothing about it since TSWATG will always be slow paced and wordy because it is meant to be realistic, and it isn�t boring for me, if it is for you - I can�t change your penchants my comic is about feelings and thoughts, about who knows what, about philosophical ideas - I agree that this is likely to be more boring than anything else, e.g. D&D rule jokes, but this is the only way I can do it because the story is a part of myself so much (but "yes, there will be blood" - lots of it) @Mirai Gen ok, the crouch kick is a remnant from 2nd edition (which lasted 9 strips), which had a very different ambition (more comically), that has been scrapped for the current 3rd edition (with the next look update it will be 3.5) it remained for the following reason: if you actually trudged through the 3 strips, you might have realized Imoen�s utter affection for Aina that goes to the extent of her being very clingy and even violent (I think this has been made very clear in the first 3), the kick is to hint at how far Imoen might go in this eagerness, to cure Aina she actually hurts her the dice part is actually a bluff - it (which is actually the D-story (did I say epic already?)) has no direct connection with the A-story but a very loose indirect one (yeah and I know people are not too fond of bluffs in the very first strip, but that�s the kind of storyteller I am) as seen in 13, Aina has actually told the whole story to Imoen already, and more and more of what happened that night will be seen through flashbacks like I told you, OOTS (and 8BIT) are "inside out" stories, OOTS started very simple with like 5 new facts introduced in every strip, I have like 30-50 (if you want I can name them for you for any strip, I�m not overexaggerating)because I do an "outside in" story, it is just impossible for me to start that simple @phil again with the bubbles? sigh there should be no problem with the bubble order, my speech or thought bubbles ALWAYS go from left to right, and from top to bottom (with the left-right axis having priority), in the case that multiple bubbles are used in a panel the same rules do occur I did a test comic with the original OOTS panel size and found out that there would be no room for the speech bubbles, therefore I raised the panel height 50% or something (can�t remember), I can�t extend the panel sizes any more (because it looks stupid e.g. when nothing is said in a panel) and scaling down the type makes it hard to read so, yeah, I do run out of room all the time, but I can�t help it at the moment, maybe I gain some insight in the process also, in OOTS the speech bubbles nearly always extend the borders of the panel too about the height thing: every medium character WILL still have the same size (which means I use the same base model to build it (you can see some of those in my 2nd post on page 1)) EXCEPT Aina and Imoen, the latter of which is somewhat taller; the height thing is one of the "hardcoded" features of TSWATG, which means it can�t be scrapped without the whole story going to hell I think the intro part in the beginning of #11 makes it clear that it is the first one I had to make a point in the first 3, even if you can�t see that point just now, that is why they were 2-pagers, I can�t just cut a strip after a random panel about the plagiarism thingy: I don�t CLAIM to have copyright, and it is meant to be a non-commercial project to the end anyway the story is based on BG, but with severe extensions and tweaks the characters are my own and about the wordy thingy: I used the exact amount of words Imoen and Aina would actually use Imoen talks much, slangy and fast Aina talks little, overly complicated and rather slow like I said somewhere above, slow-paced is the key word "Get up, goth chick" and "That guy is dead." Oh, and "Let's go to town." not even one of them hits the mark and "goth" is so wrong for so many reasons... @ grthwllms that�s the difference between oots and my comic: strip #11 could as well be #490 thank you for your comments! PS: and for the last thought of my post: can the style support the story? I do think it can, with additions I have already begun to introduce, like the sad/passionate "reverse angry brow". I don�t need really complicated shots (in the beginning), and once more characters are introduced the repetitiveness of the main 2 will be gravely alleviated.