Pokemon Umbral Theatre 2: Devoted to That She-Devil, Charlotte Beaufort

[Astral Harmony]

Forgot we hit over a hundred post. My last search in gelbooru turned up some pictures which remind me of Bard's character, Charlotte Beaufort.

First off, check this babe. Reminds me what I envision Charlotte as, right down to the claw-like fingernails.



And this is without a doubt Charlotte's Houndoom, Sol-leks.



Anyways, I don't have anymore information to post, so I'm just going to post two more images. Funny ones. You don't mind, right?

First up, I had to save this image. You can blame Bard's avatar for this one.



And this image makes me feel what Satoshi (Ash) would ever feel if he came to Honmyr.



That is all. Carry on with your abuseful bickering.

[Dracorion]

Makes you wonder, what if it was naked female pokemon? Would Ash get a stiffy then?

[Astral Harmony]

If Ash can't put 'em in a pokeball, I doubt he'd give a shit.

[Geminex]

Gem, if you really want to be being part of the "balancing process", you should be reading the entire thing, not skimming it and only reading sections.

Read balancing discussions? Yes. Probably. See below for further details.
But read 2 pages' worth of semi-relevant (at best) bickering and insults which MAY OR MAY NOT contain anything of actual interest?
Fuck that and the horse it rode in on.

I was responding to Gem saying that Overblades have Double Attack, since I thought he changed his mind on that.

Nnnoooo, I just wasn't aware that anyone had agreed with me for once. Fuck Double Attack.

That is explictively targetting people who multi-class despite the fact that multi-classing means that the growth to higher power is slower and the maximum height is never reached to begin with! Multi-classing has its own advantage and disadvantages and Gem is seemingly listing disadvantages that aren't actually there! Renny is supposably going to be the character with the most level of slayer, according to what you guys are saying about how many levels of demon you hope to take. So why is the one level of pokebrid such a damning factor? So much that you opt that the upgrade that was proposed to be a suitable replacement for Double Attack should be denied to the person who intend to invest the most in the class in the first place on the very basis of too much variety? The fact that the pokebrid is effectively being played like a sub-level of Slayer due to the proposed using boosted pokemon moves as Slayer attacks seemed to have gone amiss too.

Sure it has its advantages. Growth is slower, yes. But there's nobody saying "YOU CAN'T PUT 10 LEVELS INTO ONCE CLASS AND SPREAD THE OTHERS EVENLY ACROSS TRAINER, SLAYER AND POKEBRID". Cause that's what you could do. Bam, maximum height. And you get way more variety for it. And I'm not saying that all multi-classers must now BUUUURN IN THE FIRES OF THE NETHERWORLD (though it's got a good ring to it, I need to remember that...). I'm saying that this particular situation makes multi-classers stronger than they should be.
Look, when you multi-class, you don't suddenly get extra stats. You can't suddenly carry extra items. You don't gather extra rage. You get extra actions sometimes, but those are exceptions. Why should you get extra actions now?

>_> I said additive. Did you read what I said properly? Who am I kidding? Of course you didn't. Firstly, Mollesk's defense is based on a preexisting pokemon, as opposed to the slayers whose stats are difficult to measure (especially compounded if I go Pokebrid which have modified stats of their own). Secondly, Cosmic Power and Simple are Multiplicative. They actually have relatively easily measurable boosts because it's easy to say something is twice as powerful or twice as weak as normal. Saying something is 15 points higher is... not as easy to imagine.
AB, as far as I know, doesn't use math or formulas a whole lot when dealing with combat resolution, but rather a lot of guesstimating the overall effect. Things like Twice as much, Half as Much, or *applying a specific effect* actually tends to be included in his synopsis, especially because it is easier to grasp. Things that are "minor" and "hard to add up mentally" like leftovers and trainer attacks are not included except in very rare instances and usually only when they are concentrated. My argument here is that the 15 point boost falls in this "minor" camp and thus is not a significant bonus. And the reason for debating that point is because it determines whether the extra accessory slot on level 3 is too much DESPITE the fact that accessories was suggested and agreed on as a suitable replacement for Double Attack.

That point is moot. You say you think AB disregards that sort of thing, I disagree. +15 to all stats is a pretty massive boost, honestly. Saying that AB disregards that is like saying that he'd see a pokemon with 100 in all stats as equal in power to one with 115. Sounds kinda stupid, honestly. Sure, he guesstimates, it's not exact. But the higher the stats, the more likely his "guesstimate" is to give a result in your favor. Unless you say he ignores it, it's definitely relevant. And if you think he ignores it utterly then you should be putting HEY AB STOP IGNORING +15 STATS BOOSTS in orange and posting it every chance you get.

There seems to be an empty void where Double Attack and Accessories was in that level.

+15 to all stats. That is a lot, even if you'd prefer us to believe that that isn't the case. And hell, nobody ever said there wouldn't be a replacement, we're just saying that this isn't the right one. I've even suggested one. Like, that orange bit in my previous post? The one where I talk about making accessories cheaper now and then buffing them later? Yeah. That was, y'know, supposed to be the buff.
Also, what the fuck? "No reason given why"? I'd adivse that you read my posts more carefully. It doesn't make sense for multi-classing to give extra power, only more variety (except, like I said, in certain exceptions). This is not one such exception. So take the variety, stop whining about the power.
Cause right now you're playing the victim, and you're anything but.

This is sounding VERY GOOD right about now, just so there isn't that nonsense about specific upgrades being proposed at arbitary levels and how it would effect other players too while still enabling character freedom, more or less. I would vote in favor of this.

Look, I explained this already. Conditions:
1: Based on existing abilities and classes (no inventing new classes, try to re-use old abilities if you can, but don't be afraid to come up with new abilities if nothing's been proposed yet that suits you)
2: Characters must be roughly equal in power throughout their development

Other than that, total freedom.
Seriously, everything you people are agreeing to is stuff I already said. Is that it? Does everything I propose need 1-2 threads to actually sink in (5 in AB's case) before someone goes "Hey, this is actually a good idea!"?

Why are you saying Primary class again? I already explained why that is a no-no. I thought we agreed that it's basically we choose one respective action that we gained access to regardless of how many levels of our class we got.

Yes, that's what I said. Or what I meant, in any case.
You get one action as trainer. You use that action to use trainer actions. Later you can also use it to use Pokebrid actions. But you aren't actually getting any extra actions. Since accessory slots take the place of the trainer/pokebrid action, you shouldn't get an extra accessory slot either.

Also, stop whining about paradigm shift giving you rage problems. You don't want rage problems, you don't put a single level into a rage-specific class.
YOU DO NOT, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, START MODIFYING THE UPGRADE SYSTEM TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS.

If you look back some posts, I was referring to Post #82 where Gem was saying that accessories should be at level 4 because Double Attack was there. Then I responded saying I was fine with that change, since hell, he was the one saying it and Double Attack is cool! It was afterwards around Post #90 when he changed his mind AND added other nerfs to it.

Ok. This. Fucking. Stops. Now.
When we reach the point where we are quoting posts BY NUMBER, we have gone too far. Like, seriously. Way, way too far. Everyone. Take a step back. Consider. What the fuck are we doing here?
I like discussions. But they don't always have to be so fucking LONG!
Seriously, it's possible to say what you want to say in 25 words or less! I guarantee! Just try it!
Honestly, Menarker you tell me I should read everything that's written if I really want to participate in balancing, and then you go on to write a great big long post that nobody could reasonably expect anyone else to read through totally. Seriously.
I know this may be a pot-kettle-black situation, but even then. Let's all just try to write less. And be less officious about this sort of thing. And maybe even start taking it less seriously.

I was fine with that, but then his explaination was that too much variety was a bad thing and that triple classing made it worse and THAT was why he opted to put 4th upgrade higher on the scale. If that wasn't what he meant, then he explained very poorly indeed.

Or, y'know, you just misunderstood me. Cause that wasn't what I meant at all. Look, I explained it again in my previous post. Look it up.

It's pretty hard to find the balance with all the Balance Wars between Menarker, Dracorian, and Geminex. I know they mean well (Gem and Men, anyways) but it's difficult to keep up with all myself.

So end them. I've suggested it before, you haven't actually replied that vehemently to it.
Let us customize everything from level 5 onwards. We base what we do on the templates you've made. We'll be able to do what we want with our characters, I'll take care of the balancing, and by the time we're done, we'll be better for it. It'll be easier than balancing the upgrade system. And more fun, certainly. Come on.

[Dracorion]

Yeah, we probably should forget all about it and just customize our advanced classes. I'm on board.

Anyway, question about Menarker's Valiant Rush:

Okay, you probably (definitely) intended otherwise, but the way I'm understanding it you would only be able to do up to five hits with Valiant Rush. Or seven, if you get 150 RPs from Gaea's second Wind. Hell, maybe twelve if you can pay from from that Slayer accessory that gathers Rage (I forget the name), and take the time to charge it up.

Because, the way I see it, it would only allow you to do as many hits as you can pay with the amount of Rage you currently have, regardless of how much Rage will get deducted when you take into account the downed allies. The Rage deduction would then get tacked on.

So... did I get it right?

[Menarker]

No, it could go higher if there are people in critical or knocked out condition. The rage deduction comes before the payment.

A) Let's say there was no Second Wind, no Rage Tank. Let's say Renny had 60 rage.
If everyone was perfectly healthy, Renny could only pay for up to 3 attacks. Frankly, Renny can do better with his rage as a support dude.


B) If we assume the above example but alter it so three NPCs were in critical condition or knocked out, then he could either attack 3 times for free (no rage spent but he'd be unable to use it for three turns regardless of how much rage he built up), or he could attack up to 6 times, spending the required 20 rage for each one beyond 3.



C) In the VERY WORST situation for the group, but the best situation for Valiant Rush:
1) Where Renny has no items to revive anyone with and thus doesn't spend the rage on something better like Prosperous Gifts. (Or if a boss is charging up an attack where it would nuke the entire arena in an instant gameover ala Sin from Final Fantasy 10, the bastard)
2) Where there is a full party set-up with no slot empty.
3) Renny has 250 rage from Rage Tank (100), Second Wind (50) and his normal rage gauge filled up (100). (This pretty much means that Renny would have to not spent rage the entire battle for attacking or supporting, and thus this example would never happen anyhow.)
4) Impact and his enforcer is knocked out (40 rage), Pierce and his enforcer is knocked out (40 rage), Charlotte and her enforcer knocked out (40 rage), Dante and his enforcer knocked out (40 rage), Renny's enforcer and all his pokemons knocked out (80 rage), Shock Trooper knocked out (20 rage), Medic knocked out (20 rage), Engineer knocked out (20 rage), and Sniper knocked out (20). (Destroyers can't be damaged)

Basically, under the circumstances where Renny is utterly charged up to the maximum and everyone else in the group has their face buried in the dirt, Renny's pokemon included. (With the exception of the destroyer)

Under those IMPOSSIBLE circumstances, which should really for all purpose be a TPK and is never to happen statistically unless AB deliberately wanted to showcase Renny (which I would find completely tacky and crude at the very least), then Renny could attack a WHOPPING 32 times! 12 from actual rage spent (10 rage left over) and the rest coming from deductions. Every 20 rage being an attack. Mind you, it would be out of character since Renny would not have horded that much rage if he could have used the rage he could get to use Serene Blessing or so to protect the party from getting to that point.

Keep in mind, this is 130 Power Almighty typed after crit. It is powerful in big numbers, but individually, even normal pokemons do consistantly more damage if they use STAB and even more so with Super Effective hits. A fire type using a fire move with 100 power would have 150 power right there due to STAB, which would become 300 power if it hit something super effective or 600 power for the rare quad effective foes like Scizor.

EDIT: Anyhow, I'm writing my customized class as I speak, although I'm still waiting for AB to post the templates for demon as well as the accessories.

[Dracorion]

That's...

Yeah.

Anyway, my customized class is really one level of Breeder so y'know, not much to do there.

[Astral Harmony]

Do as you will. I've got duty today and, if time is merciful, I'll hopefully get a lot of stuff done (post, demon upgrades, even some of the sprite comic) and ready to post as soon as I get home Wednesday afternoon.

[Menarker]

Hehe, since Demons are already a custom class and we're just waiting for AB to set the standard.

I changed a few things on my custom class, but keeping mostly to what the upgrades sheet says.

One thing I did include though was "Conditional Upgrades".

Basically upgrades that we agree would only be granted upon fulfilling certain requirements. Like the entire Shock Trooper effect (Battle Masters fighting alongside their pokemon) we agreed would require around at level 4 levels of slayer and 4 levels of trainer or something like that.

Heck, I might as well post those ones here...

Conditional UpgradesConditional Upgrades

1) Upon getting 1 level of Pokebrid and 1 level of Slayer, Renny gains Intergrated Combat Training.

Intergrated Combat Training enables pokebrid moves to be used in place of Slayer weapons for all attacks, whether basic attack or sweeps or even RDPAs. The moves are pumped up to have the same power that Slayer Weapons have. The few moves that have stronger base power keep their original power level. The rules are as follows:
A) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves belonging to the respective pokebrid's type/s.
B) Unlimited Slayer empowered moves to moves learned by level-up. This Doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so.
C) Extra moves for 3 other types. Each of those types enable 3 empowered moves.
D) All other element types only get 1 empowered attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable and only accessible by RDPA if chosen.
E) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related.
F) All the above only applies to moves with Attack subtype, not Special Attack. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow)


2) Upon getting 4 levels of Slayer and 4 levels of Trainer, Renny gains Shock Trooper classification.

Shock Trooper classification allows Renny to fight alongside his pokemons, with the three (2 pokemons and Renny) being able to attack on the same turn with no penalty.





Basically, they won't be granted on a specific level, but if the requirements are met, you automatically get them.

[Dracorion]

That's... really unnecessary, the conditionals.

Because you choose when you get your upgrades, all you have to do is say "Oh, I want to get this at Pokebrid level 1", and specify that you're going to get a couple of levels of Slayer first.

Also, conditonal upgrades really should be more of a proposal, rather than something you just assume you're going to get through customization. Because, see we'd only get to customize our advanced classes, that is, any class we're taking beyond level 5.

And the upgrades you're suggesting apply to classes when they're below level 5.

Basically, put it in orange.

Also, if we do let you get conditional upgrades, all the rest of your shit better be severely underpowered.