Boycott Atlus

[Red Fighter 1073]

Apparently you missed the part in this thread where I explained that Persona 4's trans character is really horribly handled. Their dungeon ends with them "accepting their true self" and no longer presenting as a man. The resolution is that "Naoto wasn't really a trans man, they were just trying to escape sexism." That's actually a belief transphobic people have about trans men, so the game is reinforcing that belieft.

The game also uses a mad scientist experiment as a metaphor for gender reassignment surgery. Later, the player is able to abuse the way Naoto feels about them to make them act more feminine. Last, but not least, the swimsuit added for Naoto's character in Persona 4 Golden as well as a light novel Atlus has put out about Naoto that takes place several years after Persona sexualize Naoto as a woman.

All that is pretty fucked up, so maybe you should stop talking about how people should be grateful Atlus is trying at all.

All the other stuff about Homophobia and racist stereotypes I understood, but this explanation definitely makes the trans issue a lot more clear. I too was of the opinion that we should be grateful that Atlus is actually trying to tackle these issues, but I see your viewpoint now. Makes a lot more sense.

So there's been a lot of argument of why boycott Atlus and this and that, and at this point I do agree that Atlust should be targeted, but do you think a boycott will really help? I mean that as in, will this boycott really affect Atlus enough in sales that they will care to address the issue?

Would a petition or something along those lines work better to get the message to Atlus? Right now I'm just comparing this situation to Bioware/Mass Effect 3 where ME3 still sold well, but there was enough of an online backlash that Bioware tried to rectify the situation in some way.

[Marelo]

A boycott is just a starting point, Red. It's not like people are locked into that being their only option for the duration of their anger at Atlus!

[Jagos]

Originally Posted by Liz

The artbook for Catherine refers to a trans woman as a man and calls her Eric. In the game, she is the only woman given nightmares that the audience is told only men get. She gets the dreams for "tricking" a guy she slept with, further characterizing her as some trickster when the honest truth is trans women aren't obligated to tell people they're trans, because society is transphobic as fuck and fucked up.

Since I've actually been following some real world transphobic messed up BS, I'll post some real world examples that I know of.

Transgender African American faces murder charges for defending herself against Nazi racist

Transgenders threatened to be stomped by Tennessee Republican

Transgender woman placed with male inmates

Transgender in Canada disqualified

Gays compared to Zombies by Rightwing Fundamentalists

Rightwing church goes discusses killing gays

So yeah, Liz has a point that the US seems to be intolerant of LGBT issues and I thought that needed more emphasis.

[Grand Master Kickface]

Breaking my lurking streak to post.

While I essentially agree with your grievances against Atlus' portrayal of transgenderism, from your tone and rhetoric it kind of feels like you're completely against any kind of sexual expression oriented towards heterosexual straight men. Frustration at the lack of examples of transsexualism in media is justified, but every individual heterosexual male has the same right to sexual expression as you do. Perhaps special attention is required for misunderstood and uncommon sexualities, but it is not only minorities that have a right to sexual expression. I may be just railing away at a subjective, imagined problem, but that's the connotation I got from your posts.

On a tangential note, I'm a bit perturbed that Liz can get away with calling someone an "idiot fuck" over and over again without so much as a warning, whereas I'm certain that if anyone were to do the same back to her it would result in an immediate permaban.

[Marelo]

I may be just railing away at a subjective, imagined problem, but that's the connotation I got from your posts.

I think you are. Nobody here is saying that heterosexual males can't be sexual creatures with sexual interests and expression. Just that a source of these problems is a societal-wide heterosexual male gaze. The "societal-wide" part is the problem.

[Kim]

If men were even a fraction as sexualized as women, I would not complain as much. Were women in general not treated first as objects to be ogled and as people second (in instances where they are even treated as people) by the video game community, I would not complain as much. Sexism runs rampant in our society, and part of the problem is because everything is made to cater first and foremost to heterosexual men, assuming it ever caters to anyone other than heterosexual men at all.

I don't have a problem with sexual content or het-male aimed content in and of itself. I hate that these things exist at the expense of content for anyone other than het-males.

Society isn't remotely close to equal, and until it is I really see no reason for any, "But what about the straight men?" talk.

[Jagos]

Originally Posted by Marelo

I think you are. Nobody here is saying that heterosexual males can't be sexual creatures with sexual interests and expression. Just that a source of these problems is a societal-wide heterosexual male gaze. The "societal-wide" part is the problem.

There is a strong argument that these Japanese stereotypes might not bode well in the US since their own ignorance of LGBT issues limits their ability to convey transgendered culture in a very positive light.

[Kim]

The thing is that even if you argue that they are ignorant because of their culture, if you're going to include a member of a group you don't know too much about you should probably do some basic research and even talk with members of those groups about how best to represent them. I see no evidence at all that Atlus did any of this, so I'm not really interested in even cutting them any slack for any reason. They fucked up. There are actions they could have taken to make them less likely to fuck up. They don't seem to have taken those actions.

[Red Fighter 1073]

On a tangential note, I'm a bit perturbed that Liz can get away with calling someone an "idiot fuck" over and over again without so much as a warning, whereas I'm certain that if anyone were to do the same back to her it would result in an immediate permaban.

This honestly hasn't be said enough.

[Marc v4.0]

Originally Posted by Red Fighter 1073

This honestly hasn't be said enough.

I, too, agree that Drownball wasn't called an idiot fuck enough