Mafia: NPF edition

[Truce]

You know what, I've decided to defend B_Real.

Honestly, I don't think he's Mafia. A gut feeling tells me this is so, and it has never been wrong when it tells me that someone is innocent. He's made a couple of mistakes in his posts, and he's only making more with everybody pressuring him about it over and over.

In fact, I'm so sure that this feeling is right that I'll offer myself up to be lynched before he goes to the stand himself. Even if you think we're both mafia because of I'm defending him, I suggest you lynch me first.

Heck, I was more suspicious in the first place.

[h4x.m4g3]

Bah I got my facts backwards, replace Silly Kitty with the Wizard Who Did It, and the original point becomes established.

As for the possibility of B_Real being mafia I don't think so, not yet at least. However I don't believe (at least not yet) Catlover to be mafia, either. And so far the only thing my gut is saying is observe a little longer.

[P-Sleazy]

TO Fenris: you're in danger now? Hell, I would think I saved your ass now if anything. If Catlover is the mafia don and he is targetting for payback, you'd be next. If Catlover is paying attention he probably won't go after you now. I don't care if youre opposing me now. All I care about is saving a townie from being mafia killed. Especially one whom I suspect can help the town greatly.

IF I had the BG role, I'd have kept my mouth shut, let the day take its course, protect you at night and Pin it on Catlover then. But I couldn't. SO I pre-emptively did what I did.

Originally Posted by Fenris

Because I think you're wrong. You claim it's a long shot, but you also claim to be "almost 100% sure of it being true", as Thundergod Cid pointed out.

Again, I know its a longshot, and yes I am fairly certain its a correct longshot taken at Catlover, he is the mafia don. You ever take any risks? This is basically what I'm doing. I'm taking a risk at catlover because I beleive he is the mafia.

Originally Posted by Fenris

And trying to blame it on Mesden earlier, which you never really answered why, makes you look incredibly scummy. Claiming you got caught in a trap that was hers, (but really isn't, it's just your idea that backfired) isn't an answer. Answer all of the post, not just the parts that are convenient.

ok, and now I have 2 beliefs for who mafiates are. 1 is Mesden, the other is Catlover. I am more firmly convinced of Mesden's mafia allegience then Catlovers as I explained here.

Originally Posted by me

You have also done and set up the EXACT same scenario here. Replace a few names, change the situation a little and there we go. I end up Mafia, you're seen as the town hero, and you probably won't get lynched. I end up innocent, its fairly obvious you're mafia trying to get townies lynched. Only difference is, you can save your own neck better than I can cause you're better at imposing your opinions on others.

and

Originally Posted by Me

hmmm...maybe because I'm as far as I know, My Catlover Accusations are a longshot. My accusations against you on the otherhand are FAR more likely. Trying to get the first townie to notice the Catlover guilt and get him ousted for the very reasons you have set up. Yes, you may be Uber Mafiate and I don't put ANYTHING past you. Just seems like a brand new strategy of yours to get people lynched without drawing suspicion to yourself. Kinda like in the first mafia you had mafiates vote for another mafiate, and have the town beleive that mafiates wouldn't vote for other mafiates. Now we know they do that, and we're more careful.

Both of those were refering to Mesden.

To Ecurt: Thanks man. Atleast I know someone beleives me. All the more reason to keep fighting the good fight! But don't lynch him guys. He's just as much townie as I am. No need to do that.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

TO Fenris: you're in danger now? Hell, I would think I saved your ass now if anything. If Catlover is the mafia don and he is targetting for payback, you'd be next. If Catlover is paying attention he probably won't go after you now. I don't care if youre opposing me now. All I care about is saving a townie from being mafia killed. Especially one whom I suspect can help the town greatly.

Yeah, thanks for that. Now I'm still a target, because I do not believe catlover is the don. If I end up dying, catlover won't be behind it. But thanks for the vote of confidence; I never expected to be called a help at this game, as all I've managed to do is get killed, nearly get killed, and set up a team-mate to die.

To Ecurt: Thanks man. Atleast I know someone beleives me. All the more reason to keep fighting the good fight! But don't lynch him guys. He's just as much townie as I am. No need to do that.

And how would ye know this? It could be a mafia ploy to kill a townie.

[P-Sleazy]

I Don't know it. I'm just saying it cause I don't want him sacrificed in vain.

[Mesden]

Me breaking down on EVERYTHING of relevance that B_Real has stated in my breif absence.

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

Because from what I can tell I'M sure. Yes it is a longshot. But so was IC's vote in the first game based on guts. Wasn't that also a longshot that got a mafia killed that he was fairly certain of. I'm almost certian that my longshot of a premise on Catlover is correct.

Fenris has stated how you’ve gotten your facts mixed up and Sith stated adequately how that was just a random luck draw and the statistics don’t change because of that.

To Fenris WOLF: because now I feel like I got caught in one of Mesden's traps.

What kind of trap? The kind where I wait for someone to do something entirely scummy and reply scummily the whole way through? Oh yeah, what a trap there. *Eye roll*

How’d I trap you? Honestly? I’m not seeing anything but you making a statement and me going against it with many legitimate posts and you replied your own way. How’s that a trap if I debate with you? Man, EVERYONE is setting up a trap. I better watch out! /sarcasm.

ALSO! Thar be no SK! Remember it was decided before the game started and it was even removed from the list of roles. I fear we have 2 vigilantes in our mist...or a secret killing role. I just noticed.

It’s amazing how Garud mentions the SK not getting a night kill on Night 0 when there isn’t an SK, huh?

My assumption on Catlover is from Mafia Basic. He only posted once in the actual game to find out if he died yet or not.

How someone plays in one game doesn’t mean they can’t be better. Also, what’s that have to do with the grudge issue?

“He played sporadically in that game so that means he DOES have a grudge, thus solidifying my point!”

The hell? (I know they weren’t exact words, but this is how I viewed that post.)

I never said I was right. I'm just fairly sure of it. And this isn't exactly a guess or a shot in the dark like IC's was in the first mafia. This is somewhat more of an educated guess.

Ahem, educated guess? Educated guess means you have vague knowledge on what you’re guessing about. What’s your vague knowledge of guessing he still holds a grudge? That event was a bit over a week ago, so don’t tell me it’s “He was mad when it happened.”

Yeah, I would be too. Doesn’t mean it solidifies a grudge.

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

Here he is. Post number 255.

you were saying?

EDIT: oh and to that last part, Fenris already told us that.

oh I know. I just wanted to show that he did atleast have SOME activity in this thread. Remarkably in time to see the end of the day and get that night role in.

But it started on the 28th. and AGAIN, we don't know if the Mafia were the last ones who sent in their role.

EDIT: Also, we know not whether he is lying or not in the PUBLIC Announcement Thread. Could be a ploy to keep suspicion off him.

God, you must think Catlover has no moral fiber at all, don’t you? I’d be insulted if I were him at this point. Accusing him of holding a grudge over a game and accusing him of lying to the public…FOR A GAME?! Seriously, back it up and slow down on this.

TO Fenris: you're in danger now? Hell, I would think I saved your ass now if anything. If Catlover is the mafia don and he is targetting for payback, you'd be next. If Catlover is paying attention he probably won't go after you now. I don't care if youre opposing me now. All I care about is saving a townie from being mafia killed. Especially one whom I suspect can help the town greatly.

You’re so convicted that you’re infallible here, aren’t you?

“I saved your ass! Had I not stated this entirely baseless conjecture without the hint of real proof, you’d die!”

Riiiiiight.

IF I had the BG role, I'd have kept my mouth shut, let the day take its course, protect you at night and Pin it on Catlover then. But I couldn't. SO I pre-emptively did what I did.

What a shame, huh?

Again, I know its a longshot, and yes I am fairly certain its a correct longshot taken at Catlover, he is the mafia don. You ever take any risks? This is basically what I'm doing. I'm taking a risk at catlover because I beleive he is the mafia.

It wouldn’t be such a risk if you believed in it so much, B_Real. You’re failing at logic, you know.

ok, and now I have 2 beliefs for who mafiates are. 1 is Mesden, the other is Catlover. I am more firmly convinced of Mesden's mafia allegience then Catlovers as I explained here.

Yeah, what with the voting for me instead even though you’re SO sure about him and your reasons for voting for me are…

I pointed out how your baseless conjecture showed Catlover in only a completely town hurting light with circular logic following only to make it worse. But, since it was baseless conjecture, it had no relevancy.

You fought back…but never really stated anything against my main point (The one I just restated for you….again.)

Then I “Trapped” you. How? Did I know you were going to make that post? Seriously, EVERYTIME I get in a debate with you in this game, it’s some kind of trap? That’s arrogant to state.

hmmm...maybe because I'm as far as I know, My Catlover Accusations are a longshot. My accusations against you on the otherhand are FAR more likely. Trying to get the first townie to notice the Catlover guilt and get him ousted for the very reasons you have set up. Yes, you may be Uber Mafiate and I don't put ANYTHING past you. Just seems like a brand new strategy of yours to get people lynched without drawing suspicion to yourself. Kinda like in the first mafia you had mafiates vote for another mafiate, and have the town beleive that mafiates wouldn't vote for other mafiates. Now we know they do that, and we're more careful.

This ENTIRE argument rests solely on the fact that you’re a townie, you know that, right?

“Trying to get the first townie to notice Catlover Lynched.”

Who said I was trying to get you lynched? I was debunking a BASELESS CONJECTURE! Get that through, seriously. The only reason I think you’re mafia now is BECAUSE of how you’ve responded to everything I said. Most of the time avoiding the MOST RELEVANT POINT. *face palm*

And yes, I do come up with plans of play for games and adapt. But now you’re using the fact that I’m good at…playing the game means I’m mafia?

EVERYTHING I do is a trap to you, isn’t it? If I AGREED with you, it’d be a trap, right? I can’t POSSIBLY be playing for the town. I couldn’t POSSIBLY think that your conjecture was wrong and didn’t want someone who may be as innocent as you to be lynched for it. I couldn’t POSSIBLY be good, could I?

You are the one with a grudge, B_Real.

I Don't know it. I'm just saying it cause I don't want him sacrificed in vain.

Vain? Even if he is a townie, it’s automatically in vain Even if YOU ARE A TOWNIE, it’s in vain. The only way it couldn’t be in vain is if you’re the PO or Vig (Which if you were PO, that’d solve a lot.)

And this is just personal opinion, but if you ARE PO and you KNOW Catlover is mafia, then for criss sakes come out. We’ve got no more cult and the BG is alive, so we’d get another mafiate and the Vig wouldn’t ever try to kill you. The only chance you have of failure is if the BG dies from Mafia/SK.

And we still come out ahead. But you aren’t the PO, because if you were, you’d stay on Catlover since you would know he’s mafia from investigation. And you aren’t the vig, because then you’d just wait for tonight to kill Catlover instead of this fiasco.

So, unless you’ve got a positive secret role (Don’t even try this claim. Least plausible of all defenses) it is in vain (Assuming he’s townie).

[P-Sleazy]

heh, If I was a positive role, I'd have claimed it by now. Mostly because I would probably go rando killing time at whoever pisses me off and kill off a townie again like I did in //hack Mafia with my Magic mirror allowing me to mimic the PO, VIG, or BG. I killed CmP. I'd much gladly prefer we do a "hey town, lets get someone lynched and then night kill someone wiht my Vigilante roll. BG protect my ass!" Thats not the case so why bother bringing it up. I'm not even gonna TRY to fake a PO. Fenris is our most likely PO since he seems to know the game name of the SK.

You know what? Howabout we get the PO investigate me. now here's the fun part. he can tell you guys if I'm mafia. If I'm not mafia, he'll stay shut and no PO revelation. AND I KNOW that the second part of this will happen in him staying shut about me.

Originally Posted by Mesden

It’s amazing how Garud mentions the SK not getting a night kill on Night 0 when there isn’t an SK, huh?

Its also amazing how the SK is not mentioned in the first post. EDIT: and how it's been mentioned in every other game except the very first game. In SOL: Mafia he was replaced with the Imposter.

And also, Mesden, If you could just tell me how you brought up that deleted post of Garud's I'd be more than glad to give you guys proof of that the SK was taken out. It was mentioned in one of the Deleted posts before the game started.

Originally Posted by Mesden

EVERYTHING I do is a trap to you, isn’t it? If I AGREED with you, it’d be a trap, right? I can’t POSSIBLY be playing for the town. I couldn’t POSSIBLY think that your conjecture was wrong and didn’t want someone who may be as innocent as you to be lynched for it. I couldn’t POSSIBLY be good, could I?

You are the one with a grudge, B_Real.

Me, have a grudge? NAW! Its just that every time I see you in action as you are now, it always ends up in the death of a townie. EVERY DAMN TIME! So yes, everything you do, does seem like a trap to me.

Originally Posted by Mesden

This ENTIRE argument rests solely on the fact that you’re a townie, you know that, right?

And its true, if only you would stop trying to frame me, like the countless others you've framed.

[Sithdarth]

Originally Posted by B_real

You know what? Howabout we get the PO investigate me. now here's the fun part. he can tell you guys if I'm mafia. If I'm not mafia, he'll stay shut and no PO revelation. AND I KNOW that the second part of this will happen in him staying shut about me.

Except if the PO does say nothing how do we know if the he listened and investigated or didn't. In fact if the PO does find you a mafiate and then reports it then all the mafia/sk or whatever has to do is find the body guard and then no more good town weapons. The only people that PO thing ever helps is the Mafia/sk.

[P-Sleazy]

ok, then he can stay shut if I'm found out to be mafia, and we know where to go from there. Only reason I'm saying he say who he is if I'm mafia is because I KNOW he won't say it BECAUSE I'm not Mafia.

[Sithdarth]

Originally Posted by B_real

ok, then he can stay shut if I'm found out to be mafia, and we know where to go from there. Only reason I'm saying he say who he is if I'm mafia is because I KNOW he won't say it BECAUSE I'm not Mafia.

Again there is no way of telling if the PO listened or not also this way we potentially sacrifice the PO for a townie. Not a very good trade.