Alleged FFXIV open beta (AKA Squeenix fails at the internet) - Page 10

Azisien · 09-09-2010, 02:37 PM

You've pretty much summarized my feelings on the matter. Particularly the gold nugget analogy.

I did love the crafting system, too. I thought it was excellent, and it's probably what made me sink 10 hours into it instead of 1 or 2. I liked how they did levequests too, at least the few I did. Letting you choose the quest difficulty and so on was pretty awesome.

Two of my friends are going to buy the full game, and I will probably use their trial guest passes to try it again at full game launch. Assuming SE doesn't force me to make a new account for a free trial. Given the patcher, I'm assuming anything could happen now.

I guess to extend the analogy, I'd rather play with my other silver and gold nuggets without having to wade neck deep through shit. A lot of MMOs launch kind of crappy though, and I'll revisit.

Krylo · 09-09-2010, 02:41 PM

I'd consider most other MMORPGs bronzes at best, to be honest. So that's probably why I've stuck to it for so long.

Also: I really love being able to stat my own character myself, instead of my stats just moving in strange mystical ways as I level with no input from myself.

Yumil · 09-09-2010, 05:17 PM

The 8 combat leve quest limit/48 hours is easily circumvented by grouping. While they don't force you to group to level, this is very close to it.

I, for one, am buying the game, though I probably wont get the collectors edition. I plan on focusing on crafting(namely blacksmithing, may do some in the carpentry as it seems that they attach the blacksmith heads to the shafts they make to make weapons/tools...though blacksmith does that too on some). I liked SWG(pre-CU and NE) for the crafting and the community. The crafting as one could make a name for themselves by making much better stuff than their competitors, so this is looking like I might be able to do this in FFXIV. If so, I'll probably be hooked.

Krylo · 09-10-2010, 08:56 AM

I'm thinking the casual crowd and most people that like alts will have absolutely no problems with leveling solo using leves. It takes awhile to do 8 combat/gathering leves + 8 (or more? Seems like I can turn a few in and get more of these, but not many) crafting leves. Even longer yet if you're trying to figure out how to/get the ingredients to make equipment for yourself.

Hardcore players are going to be the only ones seriously held back by the 48 hour refresh, I think. And as you said, they'll just end up getting groups together and sharing leves to beat the limit.

Grand Master Kickface · 09-13-2010, 07:32 PM

Would you mind describing the crafting mechanics in more detail, such as variable outcomes from the same starting recipe? I'm curious because I tried to get into crafting in FFXI, but it turned me off because you had no control over the success or failure of your synthesis, and you had to waste several dozens of items just to gain a single skill level. I'm always attracted to the creative pursuits in games, but crafting in FFXI was just too soulless and manipulative for me to put up with. Even if I don't get the game, I'd like to know how it works in FFXIV.

Krylo · 09-13-2010, 08:52 PM

Firstly: Leveling crafting is quick and doesn't use any of your items if you use Leves. Leves are basically quests, and they give you all the materials needed to make whatever, plus one spare set of materials in case you fuck up (though you can't use them for your own personal use). If you don't use leves, it's still quick but there's more guess work to figuring out a recipe you can reliably complete and you have to use your own items.

Secondly: You can dye cloth, or leather and paint wood. If you use, say, lead-gray dyed hempen cloth when you make your hempen bandanna, instead of an off-white bandanna (the default), you'll have a dark grey one. That's how you customize your equipment's appearance.

Now, when you go to synthesize something you get a box in the upper left into which you can place up to eight items to be used. Once you select that another box will pop up showing the possible things you can make with that recipe (usually just one, but sometimes, two, three, or even more possibilities exist). So you select which one you want, and the game will show you the items stats and tell you how many crystals (crystals are used in all synths) you need to make it. At this point you can either confirm or cancel.

Then you pop out your tools. The graphic changes depending on what you're doing, but regardless of what you are doing you will have a progress bar, a durability rating, and a quality rating. Durability starts a little over 100, progress starts at 0, and quality starts at around tenish. The goal is to get your progress to 100% before your durability reaches 0, while still getting the highest quality possible (will explain why later).

Standard Synthesis: This gives you a relatively balanced increase of Progress and Durability for a medium Durability loss. A failure with standard can cost you anywhere from ~10 to over 20 Durability. A 'good' failure, can sometimes net you a 10% progress increase and a 10 durability loss, meaning you haven't really lost ground. This is best to use when you're beating the curve by a little bit.

Rapid Synthesis: This gives you lots of progress for about the same Durability as Standard, maybe a little less. It gives pretty much nothing in the way of Quality. This you use whenever you're behind the curve or equal to it. You use it to gain a lead to make using one of the other two safer. Or, IF you are making things with your own items just for experience you might just spam this as a completed item gives much more xp than a failed synth, while more quality gives an extremely marginal exp increase, if any at all.

Bold: This gives you lots of Quality for a large amount of Durability and gives pretty much nothing in the way of progress. This one you want to reserve for when you're way ahead of the curve, otherwise it's too much of a risk.

And there's a wait option, that just makes you not do anything. It costs 1 durability the first time, 2 durability the next, etc. etc. and gives nothing. It's for avoiding using something potentially more damaging in a bad situation.

Beyond the three options you'll also notice your character has a glowing orb somewhere that they are working on (within a thatch of cloth for needles, in tongs for blacksmithing, on an anvil for armorsmithing, on a wooden table for gold working and leather working, etc.

Anyway, the orb always starts white, but there's four basic colors/patterns it can do.

Firstly it can go white, obviously. White is a slightly better chance than average at succeeding your synth attempt.

Secondly, it can go yellow. Yellow is a much higher chance than average at succeeding.

Thirdly, it will usually flash between colors. I THINK this is just an average chance, but there may be a correlation to what color is up when you hit the synth button. I'm really not sure.

Fourthly, there is red. Red means wait. It's a very low chance at succeeding.

Beyond that, you can also have an element become unstable which surrounds your item in a ring of energy. In this situation all your attempts to craft will result in much greater durability losses. You can TRY waiting it out, but it doesn't always work. This, thankfully, rarely happens--though you can still pull off a success even if it does if you use rapid and either had a lead or get lucky.

And that is how you craft.

As for quality, quality does two things. When doing quests you'll get an appraisal bonus per item equal to the item's quality divided by the number of items the quest requires you to turn in. For instance, if you need three knives, and you make one at 99 quality, you'll get 33 appraisal for it. If you make the next at 66 quality, you'll get an additional 22 appraisal, for a total of 55. Etc.

Having a higher appraisal means you get more money and extra item rewards sometimes.

The other thing is that when you break 100 quality while synthing, you gain the possibility to have a +1 for whatever it is you're making (hempen hat +1, for instance). The chance grows the higher you get, and after 200 or so you can be +2 etc. Having a +1/+2 on a piece of gear gives it better stats than it would have normally. Having it on a craft item (like a piece of cloth you use to make hats), makes anything you create with that item start at a higher quality.

This, however, is a mixed blessing. The higher an items quality, the harder it is to work--which is part of the reason you want to start with rapid and get a lead, instead of starting with bold and trying to catch up later. Something that might be really easy with 10 quality could be nearly impossible for you to work at 150, for instance.

And I think that covers everything.

As you can see crafting has a TON of depth to it. And that's not even touching on the 'create this to create that to create this' thing, which gets deeper when you consider the +1 advantages/disadvantages for crafting.

Grand Master Kickface · 09-13-2010, 09:56 PM

Wow, thanks for that description. That was really in-depth. I'd rep you if I could.

So, it seems like there's still a lot of randomness involved, but there's also more decisions for the player to make during the process. I just hope through all that lengthy process and decision-making the items are more valuable than their FFXI counterparts.

I also really like the idea of crafting leves. In FFXI I didn't like having to choose between spending money on ingredients to level crafts or getting to wear pants next level.

I still doubt that I'll get the game - my lappy couldn't run it and I don't think I'd buy a PS3 just for it - but I love figuring out new systems and mechanics. My intuition says that there might be some way to use the unstable elements to your advantage, or at least keep them from happening or fix them, but I'd have to get more hands-on with it to know for sure.

Krylo · 09-13-2010, 10:11 PM

My guess on unstable elements is that either better control or magical crafting on your crafting tool helps, but basically all equipment past starting level stuff is either leve rewards (and not all of them give rewards, and there's the 8 per day for combat ones--which are the only ones that give gear), or crafted. And not many people have figured out how to make better crafting tools yet.

09-09-2010, 02:41 PM	#92
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	I'd consider most other MMORPGs bronzes at best, to be honest. So that's probably why I've stuck to it for so long. Also: I really love being able to stat my own character myself, instead of my stats just moving in strange mystical ways as I level with no input from myself. __________________ I am very tired.

09-10-2010, 08:56 AM	#94
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	I'm thinking the casual crowd and most people that like alts will have absolutely no problems with leveling solo using leves. It takes awhile to do 8 combat/gathering leves + 8 (or more? Seems like I can turn a few in and get more of these, but not many) crafting leves. Even longer yet if you're trying to figure out how to/get the ingredients to make equipment for yourself. Hardcore players are going to be the only ones seriously held back by the 48 hour refresh, I think. And as you said, they'll just end up getting groups together and sharing leves to beat the limit. __________________ I am very tired.

09-13-2010, 08:52 PM	#96
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Firstly: Leveling crafting is quick and doesn't use any of your items if you use Leves. Leves are basically quests, and they give you all the materials needed to make whatever, plus one spare set of materials in case you fuck up (though you can't use them for your own personal use). If you don't use leves, it's still quick but there's more guess work to figuring out a recipe you can reliably complete and you have to use your own items. Secondly: You can dye cloth, or leather and paint wood. If you use, say, lead-gray dyed hempen cloth when you make your hempen bandanna, instead of an off-white bandanna (the default), you'll have a dark grey one. That's how you customize your equipment's appearance. Now, when you go to synthesize something you get a box in the upper left into which you can place up to eight items to be used. Once you select that another box will pop up showing the possible things you can make with that recipe (usually just one, but sometimes, two, three, or even more possibilities exist). So you select which one you want, and the game will show you the items stats and tell you how many crystals (crystals are used in all synths) you need to make it. At this point you can either confirm or cancel. Then you pop out your tools. The graphic changes depending on what you're doing, but regardless of what you are doing you will have a progress bar, a durability rating, and a quality rating. Durability starts a little over 100, progress starts at 0, and quality starts at around tenish. The goal is to get your progress to 100% before your durability reaches 0, while still getting the highest quality possible (will explain why later). Standard Synthesis: This gives you a relatively balanced increase of Progress and Durability for a medium Durability loss. A failure with standard can cost you anywhere from ~10 to over 20 Durability. A 'good' failure, can sometimes net you a 10% progress increase and a 10 durability loss, meaning you haven't really lost ground. This is best to use when you're beating the curve by a little bit. Rapid Synthesis: This gives you lots of progress for about the same Durability as Standard, maybe a little less. It gives pretty much nothing in the way of Quality. This you use whenever you're behind the curve or equal to it. You use it to gain a lead to make using one of the other two safer. Or, IF you are making things with your own items just for experience you might just spam this as a completed item gives much more xp than a failed synth, while more quality gives an extremely marginal exp increase, if any at all. Bold: This gives you lots of Quality for a large amount of Durability and gives pretty much nothing in the way of progress. This one you want to reserve for when you're way ahead of the curve, otherwise it's too much of a risk. And there's a wait option, that just makes you not do anything. It costs 1 durability the first time, 2 durability the next, etc. etc. and gives nothing. It's for avoiding using something potentially more damaging in a bad situation. Beyond the three options you'll also notice your character has a glowing orb somewhere that they are working on (within a thatch of cloth for needles, in tongs for blacksmithing, on an anvil for armorsmithing, on a wooden table for gold working and leather working, etc. Anyway, the orb always starts white, but there's four basic colors/patterns it can do. Firstly it can go white, obviously. White is a slightly better chance than average at succeeding your synth attempt. Secondly, it can go yellow. Yellow is a much higher chance than average at succeeding. Thirdly, it will usually flash between colors. I THINK this is just an average chance, but there may be a correlation to what color is up when you hit the synth button. I'm really not sure. Fourthly, there is red. Red means wait. It's a very low chance at succeeding. Beyond that, you can also have an element become unstable which surrounds your item in a ring of energy. In this situation all your attempts to craft will result in much greater durability losses. You can TRY waiting it out, but it doesn't always work. This, thankfully, rarely happens--though you can still pull off a success even if it does if you use rapid and either had a lead or get lucky. And that is how you craft. As for quality, quality does two things. When doing quests you'll get an appraisal bonus per item equal to the item's quality divided by the number of items the quest requires you to turn in. For instance, if you need three knives, and you make one at 99 quality, you'll get 33 appraisal for it. If you make the next at 66 quality, you'll get an additional 22 appraisal, for a total of 55. Etc. Having a higher appraisal means you get more money and extra item rewards sometimes. The other thing is that when you break 100 quality while synthing, you gain the possibility to have a +1 for whatever it is you're making (hempen hat +1, for instance). The chance grows the higher you get, and after 200 or so you can be +2 etc. Having a +1/+2 on a piece of gear gives it better stats than it would have normally. Having it on a craft item (like a piece of cloth you use to make hats), makes anything you create with that item start at a higher quality. This, however, is a mixed blessing. The higher an items quality, the harder it is to work--which is part of the reason you want to start with rapid and get a lead, instead of starting with bold and trying to catch up later. Something that might be really easy with 10 quality could be nearly impossible for you to work at 150, for instance. And I think that covers everything. As you can see crafting has a TON of depth to it. And that's not even touching on the 'create this to create that to create this' thing, which gets deeper when you consider the +1 advantages/disadvantages for crafting. __________________ I am very tired.

09-13-2010, 10:11 PM	#98
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	My guess on unstable elements is that either better control or magical crafting on your crafting tool helps, but basically all equipment past starting level stuff is either leve rewards (and not all of them give rewards, and there's the 8 per day for combat ones--which are the only ones that give gear), or crafted. And not many people have figured out how to make better crafting tools yet. __________________ I am very tired.

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09-09-2010, 02:37 PM	#91
Azisien wat Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,177	You've pretty much summarized my feelings on the matter. Particularly the gold nugget analogy. I did love the crafting system, too. I thought it was excellent, and it's probably what made me sink 10 hours into it instead of 1 or 2. I liked how they did levequests too, at least the few I did. Letting you choose the quest difficulty and so on was pretty awesome. Two of my friends are going to buy the full game, and I will probably use their trial guest passes to try it again at full game launch. Assuming SE doesn't force me to make a new account for a free trial. Given the patcher, I'm assuming anything could happen now. I guess to extend the analogy, I'd rather play with my other silver and gold nuggets without having to wade neck deep through shit. A lot of MMOs launch kind of crappy though, and I'll revisit.

09-09-2010, 05:17 PM	#93
Yumil Action Hank ain't got nothin on me. Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 527	The 8 combat leve quest limit/48 hours is easily circumvented by grouping. While they don't force you to group to level, this is very close to it. I, for one, am buying the game, though I probably wont get the collectors edition. I plan on focusing on crafting(namely blacksmithing, may do some in the carpentry as it seems that they attach the blacksmith heads to the shafts they make to make weapons/tools...though blacksmith does that too on some). I liked SWG(pre-CU and NE) for the crafting and the community. The crafting as one could make a name for themselves by making much better stuff than their competitors, so this is looking like I might be able to do this in FFXIV. If so, I'll probably be hooked.

09-13-2010, 07:32 PM	#95
Grand Master Kickface Uber Tier Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ice Path Posts: 273	Would you mind describing the crafting mechanics in more detail, such as variable outcomes from the same starting recipe? I'm curious because I tried to get into crafting in FFXI, but it turned me off because you had no control over the success or failure of your synthesis, and you had to waste several dozens of items just to gain a single skill level. I'm always attracted to the creative pursuits in games, but crafting in FFXI was just too soulless and manipulative for me to put up with. Even if I don't get the game, I'd like to know how it works in FFXIV.

09-13-2010, 09:56 PM	#97
Grand Master Kickface Uber Tier Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ice Path Posts: 273	Wow, thanks for that description. That was really in-depth. I'd rep you if I could. So, it seems like there's still a lot of randomness involved, but there's also more decisions for the player to make during the process. I just hope through all that lengthy process and decision-making the items are more valuable than their FFXI counterparts. I also really like the idea of crafting leves. In FFXI I didn't like having to choose between spending money on ingredients to level crafts or getting to wear pants next level. I still doubt that I'll get the game - my lappy couldn't run it and I don't think I'd buy a PS3 just for it - but I love figuring out new systems and mechanics. My intuition says that there might be some way to use the unstable elements to your advantage, or at least keep them from happening or fix them, but I'd have to get more hands-on with it to know for sure.