Zombie Apocalypse: The Sign-up

[TDK]

Because the longer we stay here, the more likely we are to die. At the very least, we need to procure some weapons.

You might argue that the zombies will never find us, but the thing is even if you're right, several people disagree with you, and everyone arguing WILL attract the zombies.

And frankly, Pete's (ie: my) zombie survival plan does not involve dragging around large groups of people just for companionship or whatever, so he's not all about the power of teamwork. Its survival, and being with a bunch of people arguing about stuff isn't conducive to survival. So someone needs to take charge. Pete decided to do so, and when everyone kept arguing even after we started making plans, an ultimatum was issued: "Come with me or don't. I'm leaving."

[Geminex]

Because the longer we stay here, the more likely we are to die. At the very least, we need to procure some weapons.

This: I'm not saying that zombies won't find us. But that we're more likely to be found if we're moving around, rather than if we just stay in one spot. And even more likely to be found out if we try to leave the con before nightfall.

And I'm not even saying that we have to stay in the room! I'm fine with trying to reach the security office, we have to do something. But we should plan something out, and we should agree on what to do, and we should prepare. Just going off and saying 'yo, guys, follow me', that's... not taking charge. Or, well, it is, but it's the kind of taking charge that'll get us all killed. I mean, you don't know much about tactics, you don't have much of a plan, you haven't really considered any options, you just decide that we shold be doing something and try to force us to go with it? Yeah, no. Not even Impact's that bad. And he's supposed to be really bad.

I mean, we're more intelligent than the zombies. We need to use that to our advantage. Planning stuff out, thinking it over, that's using it to our advantage. Just going ahead with stuff? Not an advantage. Not at all.

Also, Mauve:
Put that hose away, it will not become necessary for you to separate us, thank you very much for asking. I'm just working my way through all the males in this RP, this always happens. When I've argued with everyone at least once, things will cool down a bit. And hey, I'm done with Krogo, think Bard won't be a problem, I'm getting along fairly well with OC (for now, though he's probably on my to-do list), I'm taking care of TDK right now. Then just grrthwllms (I just realized, that's just Garreth Williams with all the vowels removed), and I'm not even sure if he'll be necessary. He seems like a very reasonable guy.
...
UNLIKE SOME OTHERS I COULD NAME

[TDK]

Originally Posted by My Plan, page 5

Here's what we're going to do.

At least one of us must have a map." He spotted one sticking out of TBM's back pocket.

"Grab the map, spread it out on the table. Figure out where we are, figure out the path to where we're going. First priority: Weapons. Hand-to-hand is not viable, something better is necessary. As I said before, the utility room is our best bet. We're on the second floor. I don't remember how tall this building is, but if there's an elevator, it goes down to the basement. They say not to use them in case of emergencies, but that's our best bet of avoiding where the zombies would be most concentrated, ie: The main con floor. We leave this room, make our way to the elevators (given how slow most elevators are in coming and opening, its extremely unlikely anyone would've gotten on one, and anyone who turned on the elevator would get off as soon as it opened), hoping not to get seen.

Kill any zombies we see as quietly as possible. Go to the utility room. Get weapons, probably wrenches, maybe something better if we're lucky.

From there, there may be some loading-bay type entrances that have a ramp leading outside. That will be our ideal exit, as it allows us to avoid zombies. From there, we need a vehicle. My car isn't ideal. While fast, its very low to the ground. While that makes it great for cornering and speed, any zombies we run over are going squish in the undercarriage and getting dragged, which is bad for obvious reasons, not to mention the smell and ick factor. Also, it only seats five.

Ideal car is some kind of SUV or van...something like a Cadillac would also be great. Roomy, comfortable, fast, more ground clearance, but not so much as to make it prone to flipping like an SUV.

Before looking for cars that we don't necessarily have the keys to (although if we see an ideal car with the keys in it, we'll take it), let's talk cars we do have the keys to. Who's got a car and what kind is it? Someone check Mena-...the zombie's pocket. If there are keys, we can likely determine at least vaguely what kind of car it is by the style of the key."

.

Originally Posted by Geminex

I mean, you don't know much about tactics, you don't have much of a plan, you haven't really considered any options, you just decide that we shold be doing something and try to force us to go with it?

My, we're presumptuous, aren't we?

Have you been reading the RP?

Like, at all?

I've been one of the main people going "hey guys we need a plan, here's what we should do"

"Tactics" is a completely arbitrary term in a survival fight against an enemy that does not think. There is absolutely no difference between "Having a plan" and "using tactics" in the context of this situation, and I have a plan.

I do not particularly want to be in a large group. Saying "I'm leaving, anyone who wants to live come with me" is my way of dealing with said large group, ie: Saying "Anyone who wants to live and stead of sitting here arguing with Captain Crazypants should come join Team Pete, where we are being proactive and following Pete's Plan where we obtain weapons with the relatively safe route we have mapped out and actually try to get to a secure location." and not actually caring who comes because most of the group doesn't seem extremely useful at the moment and also because smaller groups are harder to detect.

Anyone too shellshocked to be much good or too argumentative to not argue (and attract zombies) can and will stay behind, which is just fine with me.

[krogothwolf]

Originally Posted by Geminex

I'm done with Krogo

HA! That's what you think! we'll argue again soon enough!

[Geminex]

You misunderstand me. I'm saying 'you don't have much of a plan'. I'm aknowleging that you have something of a plan! Just that I think your plan is flawed, and rather incomplete.

First, your 'first priority' is weapons. There are more zombies out there than you could ever kill. Fighting them has to be our absolute last resort, and we are not likely to survive an encounter with even a few, unless we have guns. Sure, let's pick some weapons up. But don't make finding weapons our first priority.

What our first priority should be, is gathering info. Gaguing the situation. We know nothing about this situation, or close-to-nothing. We really can't react very effectively to what's going on if we don't know what's going on. That's tactics. You're not really doing any info-gathering, at all. You're looking at a map, allright. But other than that, you're deciding on a certain course, but you aren't making sure that course is viable, and you don't have any contingency plans in case it isn't.

Impact's plan invovled three things: First sending out a scout, to see what the situation was on this floor and in the staircase, secondly, reaching the security office to check out the CCTV footage, thirdly, trying to tap into the CCTV footage from where they were. That last one probably won't work, but the above two could quite easily save our lives. You aren't doing either, or even the first!

You aren't really stopping to think about it either. You decide 'this might work', but you don't seem really keen to discuss it and let others give input, nor do you apply much critical thinking. You don't wonder 'if gas is heavier than air, won't we encounter it in the basement'? You don't really address the fact that the elevator might well attract the zombies. You don't aknowlege the whole 'waiting somewhere safe for nightfall' idea, for reasons that I don't really understand. (I mean, I'll gladly drop the idea if you guys can come up with good arguments against it, but what arguments do you guys have?)
Hell, you're even just assuming that your escape route will be where you hope it will be! 'Might be some loading-bay type entrances'. What if there aren't?

Your plan is interesting, but it has more holes than a zombie that just got strafed by an A-10 warthog! (it has a 30-mm gatling gun, in case you were wondering). I don't think it'll work. And deciding not to discuss things, going 'Hey, people, Imma do my thing now!' when you know that that'll pressure people into following your not-very-good-at-all plan really isn't what anyone should be doing. We need to stay together if we wanna survive. That's, like, rule number zero of any zombie scenario. Rule number one is 'shoot them in the head'.

And I mean, yes, smaller groups are harder to detect. But they also have way less collective skills and resources. I think the latter outweighs the former. Plus, there's these ethics that I sometimes like to adhere to. Phil will certainly be a great proponent of them, oh yes. Moral higher ground, bitches!

And like I said, pro-activeness is well and good, if the plan you're being pro-active about is worth being pro-active about. Yours? Not worth being pro-active about, I think.

'Tactics' isn't just to be used agianst a thinking opponent. Tactics, in this situation, is the ability to formulate plans that use resources effectively an don't get people killed. Like I said, I don't see you being very tactical very much at all OH NO SIRREE.

Anyway, I think I'm done for today.

And Krogo, I would hope that we'll argue again. But it will be on a friendly basis, and the insults to each others intelligence will be very companionable.

[CABAL49]

Originally Posted by Geminex

'waiting somewhere safe for nightfall'

My problem with that plan, is that I believe it would be better to move while things are in the process of turning and still chaotic. If we move now there will be less of a chance of being spotted, because there will be other things going on.

Also that is boring. This RP is supposed to have a sense of realism, but it is still a story.

[Geminex]

Okay. That sorta makes sense.

But if the gas is heavier than air, that means that the bottom floors would've been hit first. Meaning that, by the time we finished resisting it and Murdering Menarker (btw, did nobody get the South Park reference when Phil went 'Oh my god, we killed Renny!'?), the bottom floor would've already been done turning. Maybe could've slipped out while everyone was turning, but I think that opportunity's long passed. It's still chaotic, but it's less 'disoriented enemies' chaotic and more 'huge mass of enemies looking to kill us and only us and soon as they see us' chaotic.

As for the game thing, fair enough. But if we do that, we can time-skip what we want, and we can have some more inter-character conflict if we feel we really need to.

[TDK]

Originally Posted by Geminex

First, your 'first priority' is weapons. There are more zombies out there than you could ever kill. Fighting them has to be our absolute last resort, and we are not likely to survive an encounter with even a few, unless we have guns. Sure, let's pick some weapons up. But don't make finding weapons our first priority.

I'm not saying we should go fighting zombies. I'm saying if -no, WHEN we fight zombies, as many people as possible should have weapons. Y'know, so they don't die?

Consider:

On our way to the security room (because tasers will be sooo effective), we encounter -gasp- a couple zombies! Only they don't happen to come at the ONE person with a weapon, so the people they do come at have absolutely no defense and get murdered brutally. This is why we need weapons ASAP.

What our first priority should be, is gathering info. Gaguing the situation. We know nothing about this situation, or close-to-nothing. We really can't react very effectively to what's going on if we don't know what's going on. That's tactics. You're not really doing any info-gathering, at all. You're looking at a map, allright. But other than that, you're deciding on a certain course, but you aren't making sure that course is viable, and you don't have any contingency plans in case it isn't.

Impact's plan invovled three things: First sending out a scout, to see what the situation was on this floor and in the staircase, secondly, reaching the security office to check out the CCTV footage, thirdly, trying to tap into the CCTV footage from where they were. That last one probably won't work, but the above two could quite easily save our lives. You aren't doing either, or even the first!

What exactly would seeing the security cameras show us? That there are zombies?

You aren't really stopping to think about it either. You decide 'this might work', but you don't seem really keen to discuss it and let others give input, nor do you apply much critical thinking.

There you go presuming again. Clearly I've not considered anything except the things I say out loud, because I have no inner thought processes. And if anyone wanted to comment on my plan (which someone did, ie: overcast, I believe), they're free to.

You don't wonder 'if gas is heavier than air, won't we encounter it in the basement'? You don't really address the fact that the elevator might well attract the zombies. You don't aknowlege the whole 'waiting somewhere safe for nightfall' idea, for reasons that I don't really understand. (I mean, I'll gladly drop the idea if you guys can come up with good arguments against it, but what arguments do you guys have?)

We've already been exposed to the gas. Its not like it just appeared and left, it is still in the air. It is no danger to us because we are all more or less immune.

Hell, you're even just assuming that your escape route will be where you hope it will be! 'Might be some loading-bay type entrances'. What if there aren't?

Then we will come back up? The elevators work both ways.

Your plan is interesting, but it has more holes than a zombie that just got strafed by an A-10 warthog! (it has a 30-mm gatling gun, in case you were wondering). I don't think it'll work. And deciding not to discuss things, going 'Hey, people, Imma do my thing now!' when you know that that'll pressure people into following your not-very-good-at-all plan really isn't what anyone should be doing.

First of all that was the lamest analogy anyone has ever made -ever.

And second, if I think my plan is a good one -which I do- why should I not want to pressure people to follow it? Everyone is arguing and staying in one place. We need to move. Pressure is what is needed, currently. I'm saying "Make a decision, leave or stay, kthxbai"

We need to stay together if we wanna survive. That's, like, rule number zero of any zombie scenario. Rule number one is 'shoot them in the head'.

The hell it is. More people= more social problems, more likelihood of a fight, more likelihood of getting attached and not being able to shoot your former friend when necessary, more resource consumption, more trust that must be placed on other people that can be ill-placed. Call me anti-social, untrusting, whatever you want, IRL zombie apocalypse? I want three people with me at the MOST. People I can trust and who I know can handle themselves.

You know how in a lot of zombie movies they end up being pretty well off and then some assholes makes a mistake or tries to leave or something and then the zombies get in and half the people die?

That's why groups suck. The larger the group, the more likely it is there'll be an asshole in it.

And I mean, yes, smaller groups are harder to detect. But they also have way less collective skills and resources.

Honestly none of you guys really have skills that I feel I am greatly lacking in. Someone with like, medical knowledge would be useful.

I think the latter outweighs the former. Plus, there's these ethics that I sometimes like to adhere to. Phil will certainly be a great proponent of them, oh yes. Moral higher ground, bitches!

I didn't give a damn about ethics before the zombie apocalypse, and I sure as hell don't now.

'Tactics' isn't just to be used agianst a thinking opponent. Tactics, in this situation, is the ability to formulate plans that use resources effectively an don't get people killed. Like I said, I don't see you being very tactical very much at all OH NO SIRREE.

WHAT resources? We have jack shit as far as resources go. My plan keeps people from getting killed because it arms them. We're going to have to take risks at some point, getting down to the basement to get weapons is minimal in risk (comparatively) and accomplishes a goal pretty well, ie: gives people weapons. You're using the word tactics completely arbitrarily. A plan that uses resources effectively and minimizes casualties is, in this case, the definition of 'a good plan', and *I* feel that's what mine is and don't care what you say. If we go off and get ourselves killed, feel free to tell my undead corpse "I told you so".

You're not a general in some army or a guy playing chess, you're just some unlucky fuck in the middle of the zombie apocalypse like the rest of us and there are no moves you can take that guarantee victory because there is basically no victory to be had besides survival. So quit bitching about "tactics", pack it in, man up, and take the necessary risk rather than sit here putting off actually doing something in favor of 'tactics'.


Or don't, I can't imagine many of us care all that much if you get eaten at this point.

[Overcast]

There. That is my lame plan, it may not work, but for some reason I couldn't just leave well enough alone and just follow after TDK to his unknown unknown. The plan hasn't happened yet, but he would really like that degree of confidence before he risks his life on a less obvious assumption.

[Geminex]

I'm not saying we should go fighting zombies. I'm saying if -no, WHEN we fight zombies, as many people as possible should have weapons. Y'know, so they don't die?

I think you
a) overestimate the killing power of weapons in our hands
and
b) underestimate the danger of going down to the basement to get them

In regards to the former, sure, they'd be more effective than our bare hands. But we really aren't very good at using them, we aren't that physically fit. And like I said, if we encounter more than a few isolated zombies, we'll be in trouble, no matter if we're armed or not.
Mind you, sure, weapons help, and I'm not against getting them. But making them our top priority? Naaaah.

What exactly would seeing the security cameras show us? That there are zombies?

We'd be seeing that there are zombies. We'd be seeing where they are. We'd be observing how they behave. We'd be seeing where they're densest, which areas are mostly zombie-free. We'd be seeing if there are supplies laying around anywhere. We can see lots of things!
I mean yeah, cameras are only likely to be in the hallways and staircases. But we're bound to get some info. Fairly valuable info. Not to mention that the security office is gonna be the best place to contact the outside world. Laptops and mobile phones are fine, but I think if there's a way to find out what happened out there exactly, what's going on outside the con center, in the city, in the world, I think we'll find out in the security office. Plus, yeah. Tasers. Pepper spray. All manner of police equipment. Hell, who says we won't find any guns there? It's a possiblitiy.

And if anyone wanted to comment on my plan (which someone did, ie: overcast, I believe), they're free to.

Well, not anymore, since you decided to walk out on us. And besides, Impact did comment on your plan, albeit indirectly. He proposed his own! That sorta implies that he thinks his is better than yours. You could have responded to that. You sorta didn't.
And sure, I'm not saying you're an idiot. In fact, quite the opposite. You seem fairly intelligent. If you had thought seriously about that plan of yours, I would have imagined that you'd spot those flaws. Hence my assumption that you didn't.

Then we will come back up? The elevators work both ways.

Okay, I don't know about you, but I think the last thing I'd want to do after taking a loud, rumbling, making-noise-that-probably-attracts-zombies elevator down a few stories is get straight back into that elevator and take it back up a few stories.
I mean, it's pretty much perfectly silent now, they're bound to notice that something's up. And as has already been outlined, they are rather strong. 'Bend-open-elevator-doors' strong, I'd bet. It just doesn't seem safe.

Pressure is what is needed, currently.

Again, uhh...
Why? Do you have an appointment or something? We have all the time in the fucking world! Taking ten more minutes to come up with a plan that everyone's happy with won't kill you. Doing the opposite? Probably will.

We've already been exposed to the gas. Its not like it just appeared and left, it is still in the air. It is no danger to us because we are all more or less immune.

Still in the air? Y'think?
Gas usually has an odor, as does this. Rotten fish. I don't think anyone's mentioned smelling rotten fish after the initial? So either the gas burned out our olfactory neurons (which would've hurt like hell, and Impact was the only one with any pain in his sinuses), or we've gotten used to the smell of rotten fish (highly unlikely) or the gas actually isn't there anymore.

And besides even if it were still around, it'd be in far higher concentrations down there. Immunity is a nice term to throw around, but all we know is that we can stand it in these conditions.

Honestly none of you guys really have skills that I feel I am greatly lacking in. Someone with like, medical knowledge would be useful.

Looking at your character sheet, I honestly question that. There's a lot of stuff we can do that you can't, and there's just as much stuff that you can do that we're better at than you. But okay. Even if you were superman, my other point would still stand. Resources. Human resources. The only thing we've got left. And guess what? The only way to accumulate those is to get a lot of people around you. The more members your group has, the more it can do. Sure, it takes more feeding. There might be trust issues. It's more likely to encounter zombies. But you're also way more capable of fighting zombies off when you do encounter them, you're more capable of building shelter, of constructing equipment, of scavenging. I think a team of 100, or even just 10 humans during an apocalypse is way more likely to survive than 1 guy solo.

In regards to what resources we have: People. Lives. Intelligence. They're valauble.

In regards to tactics: Yeah, your plan accomplishes a goal. But it doesn't accomplish it efficiently, it risks too much for not enough of a gain. There's better ways of doing things. I've outlined one way, I've outlined why yours isn't good. Like I've said before, tactics is the ability to make good plans on the small scale. Your plan isn't good.

That's why groups suck. The larger the group, the more likely it is there'll be an asshole in it.

I didn't give a damn about ethics before the zombie apocalypse, and I sure as hell don't now.

Ethics (also known as moral philosophy) is a branch of philosophy that addresses questions about morality — that is, concepts such as good and evil, right and wrong, virtue and vice, justice, etc.

...
Okay, either that word doesn't mean what you think it means, or you honestly don't give a damn about what's right or wrong, in which case -and keep in mind, this isn't an insult, or a jibe, or anything of that nature, it's merely a totally neutral observation- in which case there is only one thing I can say:

you are the asshole
its you

and *I* feel that's what mine is and don't care what you say

...
ITS YOU

Or don't, I can't imagine many of us care all that much if you get eaten at this point.

YOOOOOUUUUUUwwwwait, this is counterproductive.
Dude, why're you taking this so seriously? You're seeming really emotional, what with everything from 'I don't care about ethics' to 'I don't care what you say'. I mean, we're discussing the best way to do stuff here. We're debating. This isn't personal.

Mind you, I don't mind getting insulted, it can be refreshing, especially this:

You're not a general in some army or a guy playing chess, you're just some unlucky fuck in the middle of the zombie apocalypse like the rest of us and there are no moves you can take that guarantee victory because there is basically no victory to be had besides survival. So quit bitching about "tactics", pack it in, man up, and take the necessary risk rather than sit here putting off actually doing something in favor of 'tactics'.

Of course I'm not a general. I'm a guy sitting in his living room, writing 2000 words in a discussion about zombie survival tactics. I have no illusion of what I am and am not.
Still, kind of you to remind me.

I maintain that tactics, planning is the most important thing we can do, though. You seem to be telling me to man up, which is strange, because arguably discussing this shit is more manly than role-playing. And if our goal is survival, tactics is the way to get there. Not MANLINESS. Not elan, or pro-activeness. Planning shit out and going through with it. I'd gladly get on with the 'going through with it' bit. But only once the tactics have been completed. You can try to force it, and that's your right, I guess.
But it is sort of an asshole thing to do. And I really think you shouldn't.

Look, how about you mix things up a bit. How about I start insisting we do things my way and you start criticizing my plan. I totally care what you think!
I care about all of you! I totally wuv you! Especially TDK

Edit:
Oh, and can I sig this?

So quit bitching about "tactics", pack it in, man up, and take the necessary risk rather than sit here putting off actually doing something in favor of 'tactics'.

It seriously cracks me up every time I read it. Especially the quotation marks around tactics, like it's an ideology or something. Classic.