Boycott Atlus

[stefan]

this has been pages upon pages of nikose and rpg shitting all over eachother on a semantic basis, the actual subject and content left long, long ago for the sake of winning an internet argument.

would you two stop arguing and just fuck already.

[Nikose Tyris]

I am now very drunk and this feels like a good idea, will you come with me rpg-kuuuuuuun

this is myl ast post because its really bad goodnight everybody

[EVILNess]

I am probably going to regret posting in this thread, but heaven help me here I go.

I have read your arguments, and just want to let you know that you have not convinced me to boycott ATLUS of America. I do recognize, that yes, some of that is not exactly in the best of taste, and that you find it offensive. I am not saying you shouldn't, but I want to say that I don't particularly find it so.

I see it as mostly a symptom of the Japanese and their culture, and take it as such. The view on trans individuals, fanservice, and even racism are all subjects that sadly mar a lot of Japanese media. (Especially the fanservice for me, hooboy.) However you feel, the bottom line is you are consuming media from an entirely different world with different values.

Because of that, ATLUS of America is probably not a very good target. They are strictly a publisher. They make absolutely ZERO games. They have no say so in any of the makings of any of the actual games that the Japanese ATLUS makes. They just publish them, as well as any other niche titles that they think they can turn a profit on.

Therefore, unless you find a way to change the Japanese culture that produces these things you object to, you aren't going to be able to change anything. The games will continue to be made regardless, because they were not made for you Liz. They were made for Japanese people, and the fact that we get them is incidental.

I do want to point out that ATLUS is responsible for several positive gay depictions in Japanese media. Kanji is the obvious one to put forward, and a personal favorite of mine because of the complexity of his gender confusion left me wondering if he was indeed gay or just ashamed he liked girly things and the fact that in my eyes at least it could be argued either way (At least until Arena where they put gachimuchi in his title.) Naoto herself can probably be thrown out there as well for the people who feel like they were born in the wrong body. Hell, in Persona 2 you can be gay.

I do understand your anger, and I understand your need for an outlet for that angry energy, so don't think any of that was me trying to talk you out of anything. Do what makes you feel better about the situation, and who knows, you might elect a small change.

Bottom line: If you feel it is worth doing, then do it. You aren't wrong in doing so.

[Drownball-Champ]

Like I said, show me more evidence. Your argument against Atlus is weak.

I don't disagree with what you claim, but I'm not convinced.

[Kim]

The artbook for Catherine refers to a trans woman as a man and calls her Eric. In the game, she is the only woman given nightmares that the audience is told only men get. She gets the dreams for "tricking" a guy she slept with, further characterizing her as some trickster when the honest truth is trans women aren't obligated to tell people they're trans, because society is transphobic as fuck and fucked up.

Persona 4 dismisses Naoto's trans identity as "just wanting to get away from sexism", an idea that is commonly believed by transphobic people about trans men. It's reinforcing a negative attitude towards trans men that already exists in culture. Furthermore, it uses a "mad scientist experiment" as a metaphor for gender reassignment surgery.

The Persona 4 animation includes a scene where a "shadow" version of Kanji hits on two male characters and is generally flamboyant, and their response is wanting to beat the shit out of him. Homphobic, straight men beating up gay men for being "too gay" or for hitting on them is another problem that actually exists in our society. The anime trivializes this major issue.

I already offered an example of transphobia in Persona 3.

In Persona 2, a background "joke" in one of the stores revolves around Eikichi, a straight male, being attracted to a trans person. (Special Note: In the fan translation of the original release of the game, the joke is about Eikichi being attracted to a trans woman. In the Atlus USA translation of the PSP version, the joke is about Eikichi being attracted to a trans man who is for some reason wearing female gendered clothing.)

The Etrian Odyssey games regularly sexualize the women far more than the men, which is made far worse by the fact that they're sexualizing childlike bodies.

In Persona 4, literally the only black character in the game has an afro, is called "Funky Student", and talks in that sort of "Straight up, dawg, let me lay down some knowledge on you" kinda way.

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey casts a South American character as the Chaos hero while it aligns a blue eyes blond hair character with Law. It's rather hard to dismiss that as mere accident when you notice the rather overt similarities between Law and communist dictatorship and the Law character is from Russia. Ergo, making the guy who gets fused with a demon and therefore becomes "less human" and naturally got along better with demons to begin with be South American is probably some "subtle" racism.

These are examples off the top of my head. Given more time, time with which I can collect more evidence and more examples, I can list a lot more shit. All of these are easily verifiable fact. Particularly the anime example, which you can find with a quick skim of the anime's seventh episode, and the Etrian Odyssey example, which you can find by looking at their goddamned character art.

If those examples aren't enough for you to get it, then I'm done wasting my time on you.

[Kim]

I guess some people wanted "proof" of the examples, so here you go. Proof of funky student. That sure is a racist stereotype.

[Pip Boy]

Wow, that is so openly and unashamedly racist it makes me want to laugh/cry.

[Drownball-Champ]

The artbook I have refers to Erica as Erica. Is there one besides the pre-order one? Pic? If she still has "man parts" then I can see it as trickery, if not then yes it is BS. Once you've gone the whole 9 it is no one's business.

The Strange Journey "racism" is a stretch. I love how at the end you wrote "all easily verifiable fact" and include "probably some 'subtle' racism". Yep, definitely a verifiable fact. Also Jimenez is American. Also, judging by his name and lighter-skinned appearance I'd wager a guess more towards a Hispanic background not Black..

The Kanji example is actually how homophobic people would react. It isn't Atlus being that way. So anything that isn't Yu saying, "Gay people are cool!" is Atlus being homophobic. Thanks for clearing that up.

Naoto's character isn't transgendered. She doesn't want to be a man because she was born in the wrong body. She feels she needs to be a man to be respected as a detective. It was a male-dominated career in her eyes. Her social link even shows her breaking away from this mentality. It was self created sexism, not actual sexism.

Funky Student. How did we go from "Atlus hates transgendereds and objectifies women" to "black people speaking ebonics"? Also how is that negative? Not all stereotypes are bad. 90% of all black people I knew in high school spoke similar to that. The only who didn't were the principal, teachers, and a fellow classmate who wants to be president.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Drownball-Champ

The artbook I have refers to Erica as Erica. Is there one besides the pre-order one? Pic?

Source

The Kanji example is actually how homophobic people would react. It isn't Atlus being that way. So anything that isn't Yu saying, "Gay people are cool!" is Atlus being homophobic. Thanks for clearing that up.

Fuck you.

It trivializes anti-gay violence you idiot fuck.

Trivializing anti-gay violence is a bad thing you idiot fuck.

Shut your fucking mouth about "It's just being realistic," BECAUSE IT IS STILL TRIVIALIZING ANTI-GAY VIOLENCE YOU IDIOT FUCK.

Naoto's character isn't transgendered. She doesn't want to be a man because she was born in the wrong body. She feels she needs to be a man to be respected as a detective. It was a male-dominated career in her eyes. Her social link even shows her breaking away from this mentality. It was self created sexism, not actual sexism.

Me: "Persona 4 is saying that trans men are just trying to escape sexism."
Drownball: "She's not a trans man, she's just trying to escape sexism."

Funky Student. How did we go from "Atlus hates transgendereds and objectifies women" to "black people speaking ebonics"? Also how is that negative? Not all stereotypes are bad. 90% of all black people I knew in high school spoke similar to that. The only who didn't were the principal, teachers, and a fellow classmate who wants to be president.

1. Stop using transgender as a noun it's a fucking adjective.

2. Fuck you.

("How is the only black character in a game being a racist stereotype offensive?" Gee, I fuckin' wonder.)

[CABAL49]

Women don't go growing a dick just because men are mean. If you want to talk about realism, getting a sex change for something like that is something that does not happen. There are women who have dressed as men to escape sexism, but that is as far as it goes. There is a big BIG difference between being transgendered and cross-dressing.

Like seriously. You are all big boys with google. This isn't just about the male gaze thing. If you are interested in a topic, do your own research. Don't wait for it to be presented to you. I mean fuck. You're all in your twenties.

But yeah, fuck you Drownball.