We are heading towards an Idiocracy! - Page 19

Solid Snake · 06-13-2016, 10:53 PM

I've changed my mind again.
In light of recent events, I am now fully supporting Hillary Clinton in the general election with the singular and explicit intention of making the National Rifle Association suffer.

Crushing the NRA alone is, in my mind, sufficient justification.

Krylo · 06-14-2016, 03:40 AM

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...eparture-2008/

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Solid Snake · 06-14-2016, 01:51 PM

Eh, she was still getting 'F' rankings from the NRA around the time of that primary.

rpgdemon · 06-14-2016, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...eparture-2008/

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah you're right let's do nothing about the problem because anything we can do to alleviate it right now is not the perfect magic bullet.

What are you even trying to say? "I know hundreds of people are dying of this epidemic daily. This might NOT fix it though, so we're better off doing nothing, than something that might not be perfect." You are seriously being a monster right now.

Solid Snake · 06-14-2016, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

What are you even trying to say? "I know hundreds of people are dying of this epidemic daily. This might NOT fix it though, so we're better off doing nothing, than something that might not be perfect." You are seriously being a monster right now.

Progressives with different conceptualizations of negotiable versus non-negotiable values, and progressives with different ideas of solutions to combat the same acknowledged problems, are not 'monsters' and you just sound silly when you indulge in that kind of hyperbolic language.

The real monsters are the NRA and the Republicans and all the bigoted wackos to the right of all of us, they're the ones deserving of all the nasty language.

If Trump wins the election by a handful of votes, blame Trump voters, not Jill Stein's progressive idealists or Sanders dreamers who stayed home rather than support Hillary.

rpgdemon · 06-14-2016, 05:11 PM

>Someone takes action to prevent gun violence and additional preventable deaths
>Snarky comment about how it isn't a perfect solution, offering absolutely nothing constructive, just "I don't want you to do this thing because it isn't perfect"

At best, that's falling prey to the Perfect Solution Fallacy. Fine, I'll assume that's Krylo's problem, and not that he's a monster who doesn't place any value on human life.

At worst though, it's a guy who would rather do nothing but mock people for trying to save lives, so that he can feel better about himself for whatever problems he has going on. A bully, and one who would see people die of preventable crime, as long as it means he gets to make fun of people who aren't as "good" as he is, in his twisted mind. That was how I chose to read the statement the first time.

Maybe if he made a post instead of just trying to be a snarky jerk who shows no respect for human life in the face of immense and preventable tragedy that we just suffered, I would cut him more slack off the bat in how I read his post. As it stands, his post gives me no reason to do so.

---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------

Like, right now, Bill O'Reilly is trying harder than Krylo to prevent gun violence.

That isn't meant as an endorsement of Bill. PLEASE do not read that as an endorsement of Bill. That's me saying - Krylo is showing less empathy to the victims of gun violence than Bill O'Reilly. He's at least willing to try to do something, even if he's very wrong about it. He isn't JUST making fun of people who are trying something that he wouldn't try.

Overcast · 06-14-2016, 05:11 PM

No one here is showing respect for human life in the face of immense and preventable tragedy. Bringing up any side commentary about this situation instead of actually showing some level of emotional solidarity with everyone who has had to deal with what is honestly an incredibly complex problem and just hashing things like GUN CONTROL, or ISLAMIC TERRORISM and whatever candidate is all about one or another is just another minor fart in the direction of anyone there.

Which is honestly why I didn't make a topic of it, I knew we didn't have the emotional responsibility to handle something of this level. So if you would all please, stop.

rpgdemon · 06-14-2016, 06:05 PM

Overcast, you are not the only LGBTQA* person here. We all handle grief differently. Please do not assume that those who are lashing out against gun violence are doing so to capitalize on an "easy win" with no regard for the victims.

Eg: If someone kills me in a mass shooting, I would be incredibly upset if people didn't use that as a rallying point to talk about gun violence. I would consider it disrespectful to my own lost life, if people refused to talk about what took it from me.

I understand that this is an incredibly difficult time for you, and I can only offer my deepest condolences, sympathy, and if you want to talk to a pretty big jerk about it, you can talk to me, and I will listen, and try to be there for you.

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 PM ----------

To give some context, all that I have to help with processing it all right now is a drive to make sure that this never happens again, to anyone. I don't have anything else to turn to. If I can take steps to help get laws put into place to keep this from happening ever again, that's what I'm going to do. It's the only thing that I CAN do in the face of this all. If I see someone actively dismissing that pain, or sarcastically laughing at an attempt to prevent this from happening again, I am going to be angry. They're sarcastically laughing at the only way I have right now to cope.

Maybe it's not a healthy response, but I don't have anything better.

Krylo · 06-14-2016, 06:12 PM

Actually, it's more that I don't think Clinton will do anything substantive for gun control, as many things she's 'changed opinion' on go straight back to whatever she originally believed as soon as she can ignore/change sides on it. And, as, like everything else, she's never confronted or even acknowledged her previous beliefs I doubt the sincerity of her change of heart here. It was call for neither action nor lack of. It was a call to temper expectations with reality (that nothing will change).

If we're going to talk about the tragedy in Orlando though: both the right and the left need to stop.

A lot of innocent people died. And gun control is just such a small part of it, as is religion.

We had a man that we knew was mentally ill for decades, whose co-workers talk about his extreme bigotry, who abused his wife and had few, if any friends. A man who, according to many accounts was, himself, a gay man who could not reconcile himself and his needs with a world that hates Muslims and homosexuals.

Is it tragic we allowed this man to acquire security clearance? Yes. Should our standards for such things increase? Yes.

Would it also be a tragedy if he hadn't had a gun and just been ignored?

Yes.

We have no real mental health structure in this country. We have a society that demonizes the ill rather than help them. We have a society in which we leave thousands lost to roam in the hatred and bile we spew in a culture that exults violence while taunting love: especially that between two people of the same gender.

And we have a society where rather than talk about the deep losses felt by the families of those lost, and where, instead of coming together in mourning, all we can, or, more accurately, will do, is yell at each other about Islam and Guns.

Rather than try to build a country where people are cared for and loved we spew vitriol about religious and hobby choices.

And, you know, if anyone gave a shit about gun control outside of massive tragedies, I'd be more open to the idea of using said tragedies to push for it--instead of for substantive changes to how we handle the discarded and hated of or society who invariably are the perpetrators of such things.

I suppose shouting 'terrorism' or "gun control' is simpler, both in thought amd action, than admitting that our entire society is built to create tragedy and doing something about that. Even if we'll never be able to create any kind of properly enforced gun control without a better mental health system.

rpgdemon · 06-14-2016, 06:16 PM

On the other hand, I also understand your exhaustion with it, Overcast. I can barely do social media right now because I just can't handle it all. The people pouring out grief, sympathy, anger, attempts at change - I'm trying to turn it off and get away from it all and escape somewhere, and I can't. Their hearts are in the right place, but I don't want what happened to follow me everywhere I go, with constant reminders of how terrible some people can be. It gets even worse when those people expressing sympathy inevitably attract the worst kind of person to comment there. Their attempts at sympathy instead just end up bringing more bigotry into the feeds of those they're trying to empathize with.

Fake edit: Krylo posted above me, but this isn't a response to that.

06-13-2016, 10:53 PM	#181
Solid Snake Erotic Esquire Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,563	I've changed my mind again. In light of recent events, I am now fully supporting Hillary Clinton in the general election with the singular and explicit intention of making the National Rifle Association suffer. Crushing the NRA alone is, in my mind, sufficient justification. __________________ *WARNING:* Snek's all up in this thread. Be prepared to read massive walls of text.

06-14-2016, 03:40 AM	#182
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...eparture-2008/ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ __________________ I am very tired.

06-14-2016, 01:51 PM	#183
Solid Snake Erotic Esquire Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,563	Eh, she was still getting 'F' rankings from the NRA around the time of that primary. __________________ *WARNING:* Snek's all up in this thread. Be prepared to read massive walls of text.

06-14-2016, 05:11 PM	#186
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	>Someone takes action to prevent gun violence and additional preventable deaths >Snarky comment about how it isn't a perfect solution, offering absolutely nothing constructive, just "I don't want you to do this thing because it isn't perfect" At best, that's falling prey to the Perfect Solution Fallacy. Fine, I'll assume that's Krylo's problem, and not that he's a monster who doesn't place any value on human life. At worst though, it's a guy who would rather do nothing but mock people for trying to save lives, so that he can feel better about himself for whatever problems he has going on. A bully, and one who would see people die of preventable crime, as long as it means he gets to make fun of people who aren't as "good" as he is, in his twisted mind. That was how I chose to read the statement the first time. Maybe if he made a post instead of just trying to be a snarky jerk who shows no respect for human life in the face of immense and preventable tragedy that we just suffered, I would cut him more slack off the bat in how I read his post. As it stands, his post gives me no reason to do so. ---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ---------- Like, right now, Bill O'Reilly is trying harder than Krylo to prevent gun violence. That isn't meant as an endorsement of Bill. PLEASE do not read that as an endorsement of Bill. That's me saying - Krylo is showing less empathy to the victims of gun violence than Bill O'Reilly. He's at least willing to try to do something, even if he's very wrong about it. He isn't JUST making fun of people who are trying something that he wouldn't try. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF.

06-14-2016, 05:11 PM	#187
Overcast Cinderella Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Trespassing in the graveyard Posts: 3,076	No one here is showing respect for human life in the face of immense and preventable tragedy. Bringing up any side commentary about this situation instead of actually showing some level of emotional solidarity with everyone who has had to deal with what is honestly an incredibly complex problem and just hashing things like GUN CONTROL, or ISLAMIC TERRORISM and whatever candidate is all about one or another is just another minor fart in the direction of anyone there. Which is honestly why I didn't make a topic of it, I knew we didn't have the emotional responsibility to handle something of this level. So if you would all please, stop. __________________ Time to bust out the glow sticks!

06-14-2016, 06:05 PM	#188
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	Overcast, you are not the only LGBTQA* person here. We all handle grief differently. Please do not assume that those who are lashing out against gun violence are doing so to capitalize on an "easy win" with no regard for the victims. Eg: If someone kills me in a mass shooting, I would be incredibly upset if people didn't use that as a rallying point to talk about gun violence. I would consider it disrespectful to my own lost life, if people refused to talk about what took it from me. I understand that this is an incredibly difficult time for you, and I can only offer my deepest condolences, sympathy, and if you want to talk to a pretty big jerk about it, you can talk to me, and I will listen, and try to be there for you. ---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 PM ---------- To give some context, all that I have to help with processing it all right now is a drive to make sure that this never happens again, to anyone. I don't have anything else to turn to. If I can take steps to help get laws put into place to keep this from happening ever again, that's what I'm going to do. It's the only thing that I CAN do in the face of this all. If I see someone actively dismissing that pain, or sarcastically laughing at an attempt to prevent this from happening again, I am going to be angry. They're sarcastically laughing at the only way I have right now to cope. Maybe it's not a healthy response, but I don't have anything better. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF. Last edited by rpgdemon; 06-14-2016 at 09:16 PM.

06-14-2016, 06:12 PM	#189
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Actually, it's more that I don't think Clinton will do anything substantive for gun control, as many things she's 'changed opinion' on go straight back to whatever she originally believed as soon as she can ignore/change sides on it. And, as, like everything else, she's never confronted or even acknowledged her previous beliefs I doubt the sincerity of her change of heart here. It was call for neither action nor lack of. It was a call to temper expectations with reality (that nothing will change). If we're going to talk about the tragedy in Orlando though: both the right and the left need to stop. A lot of innocent people died. And gun control is just such a small part of it, as is religion. We had a man that we knew was mentally ill for decades, whose co-workers talk about his extreme bigotry, who abused his wife and had few, if any friends. A man who, according to many accounts was, himself, a gay man who could not reconcile himself and his needs with a world that hates Muslims and homosexuals. Is it tragic we allowed this man to acquire security clearance? Yes. Should our standards for such things increase? Yes. Would it also be a tragedy if he hadn't had a gun and just been ignored? Yes. We have no real mental health structure in this country. We have a society that demonizes the ill rather than help them. We have a society in which we leave thousands lost to roam in the hatred and bile we spew in a culture that exults violence while taunting love: especially that between two people of the same gender. And we have a society where rather than talk about the deep losses felt by the families of those lost, and where, instead of coming together in mourning, all we can, or, more accurately, will do, is yell at each other about Islam and Guns. Rather than try to build a country where people are cared for and loved we spew vitriol about religious and hobby choices. And, you know, if anyone gave a shit about gun control outside of massive tragedies, I'd be more open to the idea of using said tragedies to push for it--instead of for substantive changes to how we handle the discarded and hated of or society who invariably are the perpetrators of such things. I suppose shouting 'terrorism' or "gun control' is simpler, both in thought amd action, than admitting that our entire society is built to create tragedy and doing something about that. Even if we'll never be able to create any kind of properly enforced gun control without a better mental health system. __________________ I am very tired.

06-14-2016, 06:16 PM	#190
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	On the other hand, I also understand your exhaustion with it, Overcast. I can barely do social media right now because I just can't handle it all. The people pouring out grief, sympathy, anger, attempts at change - I'm trying to turn it off and get away from it all and escape somewhere, and I can't. Their hearts are in the right place, but I don't want what happened to follow me everywhere I go, with constant reminders of how terrible some people can be. It gets even worse when those people expressing sympathy inevitably attract the worst kind of person to comment there. Their attempts at sympathy instead just end up bringing more bigotry into the feeds of those they're trying to empathize with. Fake edit: Krylo posted above me, but this isn't a response to that. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF.

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