Big Tobacco takes big hit - Page 2

ArlanKels · 10-09-2006, 01:20 PM

Not to detract from the overall point of this discussion, but the Mcdonalds comparison is probably one of the worst ones to ever use given that numerous individuals have chosen to eat only McDonalds and have lost weight, rather than gained it.

In fact, careful planning and exercise can make you thinner no matter which fast food place you go to...except if one exists which is like...The Lard King or some such.
:|

Yeah...

As for this thing, I actually have to side with the Tobacco Company in that they shouldn't be sueable due to this issue. You can quit smoking, as I know numerous people who have, thus you can not say that the addicting quality is forcing you to do it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and threatening to pull the trigger. You are CHOOSING to inject poison into your system time after time after time.

If we can not take responsibility for our own actions then what is to stop someone from suing a company for making them watch television and cost them so much on their electricity bill? For making a person run a stop sign because a music song told them to?

Responsibility is everything. Integrity must exist. Yet it sadly doesn't anymore.

Elif Tymes · 10-09-2006, 01:56 PM

I would partly agree with you. Nicotine is addictive. Saying that someone who is addicted to Nicotine, who was told that the Cigarettes he was smoking were "not as poisonous" should have every right to sue the pants off of the company.

That company was lying. It has to be responsible to represent it's product accurately.

ArlanKels · 10-09-2006, 04:26 PM

Ah, but what is not addictive? Everything that produces pleasure can produce addiction. Video Games that stimulate pleasure cause us to want to play them again and again, resulting in a psychological addiction.

Addiction, whether chemical or psychological, can always be beaten. Therefore why is it the fault of the company who supplied the addicting item rather than the addictor for choosing to continue to abuse the substance?

Gorefiend · 10-09-2006, 07:19 PM

Actually, psychological addiction can be beaten relatively easily, but physical addiction is more like physical dependence. The substance becomes necessary for the body to function, and there are actual physical consequences to not taking it. Heck, people can die of withdrawl symptoms, and it is not unheard of for people to need microdoses of certain drugs because of how much they abused it in the past.

That said, another thing worthy of note is that nicotine is more addicting than heroin. That's something, eh?

On the subject at hand... I'd say the lying about cigarettes being unhealthy is something they could be culpable for, but lying about cigarettes being unhealthy is, at least today, like lying about the sky being blue.

ArlanKels · 10-09-2006, 07:45 PM

Oh yeah? Well...

Yeah....I got nothing. Not too knowledged about anything relating to tobacco since I avidly avoided smoking through my whole life thus far(And alcohol. Viva la addiction virgin).

How do they test the addictive capability? As in, Nicotine vs heroin.

Azisien · 10-09-2006, 08:04 PM

Physical addictive capability is probably tested on the relative dependency it creates in the brain due to what hormones it mimicks, or what reward pathway it stimulates since those vary. Nicotine acts as an agonist for all nicotinic receptors, of which a large majority of the synapses in the human body use. That's probably one of the big reasons why nicotine is incredibly addictive. Your body will require it, since it screwed with the sometimes delicate balance of your negative feedback loops.

Heroin is an agonist for...dopamine I believe? And dopamine is made in pretty constant amounts, so throwing out those feedback loops can change them permanently.

But then, I don't know any specific details, just patching a description together from animal physiology knowledge. :P

10-09-2006, 07:19 PM	#14
Gorefiend That Guy Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The city that doesn't sleep Posts: 1,039	Actually, psychological addiction can be beaten relatively easily, but physical addiction is more like physical dependence. The substance becomes necessary for the body to function, and there are actual physical consequences to not taking it. Heck, people can die of withdrawl symptoms, and it is not unheard of for people to need microdoses of certain drugs because of how much they abused it in the past. That said, another thing worthy of note is that nicotine is more addicting than heroin. That's something, eh? On the subject at hand... I'd say the lying about cigarettes being unhealthy is something they could be culpable for, but lying about cigarettes being unhealthy is, at least today, like lying about the sky being blue. __________________ The world of truth has no certainty. The world of fact has no hope. "Environmental laws were not passed to protect our air and water... they were passed to get votes. Seasonal anti-smut campaigns are not conducted to rid our communities of moral rot... they are conducted to give an aura of saintliness to the office-seekers who demand them." - Frank Zappa, prelude to Joe's Garage Ever wonder THE TRUTH ABOUT BLACK HELICOPTERS?

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10-09-2006, 01:20 PM	#11
ArlanKels <-- Pickle Eater Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,244	Not to detract from the overall point of this discussion, but the Mcdonalds comparison is probably one of the worst ones to ever use given that numerous individuals have chosen to eat only McDonalds and have lost weight, rather than gained it. In fact, careful planning and exercise can make you thinner no matter which fast food place you go to...except if one exists which is like...The Lard King or some such. :\| Yeah... As for this thing, I actually have to side with the Tobacco Company in that they shouldn't be sueable due to this issue. You can quit smoking, as I know numerous people who have, thus you can not say that the addicting quality is forcing you to do it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and threatening to pull the trigger. You are CHOOSING to inject poison into your system time after time after time. If we can not take responsibility for our own actions then what is to stop someone from suing a company for making them watch television and cost them so much on their electricity bill? For making a person run a stop sign because a music song told them to? Responsibility is everything. Integrity must exist. Yet it sadly doesn't anymore.

10-09-2006, 01:56 PM	#12
Elif Tymes El Gato es en el Arbol! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 17	I would partly agree with you. Nicotine is addictive. Saying that someone who is addicted to Nicotine, who was told that the Cigarettes he was smoking were "not as poisonous" should have every right to sue the pants off of the company. That company was lying. It has to be responsible to represent it's product accurately.

10-09-2006, 04:26 PM	#13
ArlanKels <-- Pickle Eater Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,244	Ah, but what is not addictive? Everything that produces pleasure can produce addiction. Video Games that stimulate pleasure cause us to want to play them again and again, resulting in a psychological addiction. Addiction, whether chemical or psychological, can always be beaten. Therefore why is it the fault of the company who supplied the addicting item rather than the addictor for choosing to continue to abuse the substance?

10-09-2006, 07:45 PM	#15
ArlanKels <-- Pickle Eater Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,244	Oh yeah? Well... Yeah....I got nothing. Not too knowledged about anything relating to tobacco since I avidly avoided smoking through my whole life thus far(And alcohol. Viva la addiction virgin). How do they test the addictive capability? As in, Nicotine vs heroin.

10-09-2006, 08:04 PM	#16
Azisien wat Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,177	Physical addictive capability is probably tested on the relative dependency it creates in the brain due to what hormones it mimicks, or what reward pathway it stimulates since those vary. Nicotine acts as an agonist for all nicotinic receptors, of which a large majority of the synapses in the human body use. That's probably one of the big reasons why nicotine is incredibly addictive. Your body will require it, since it screwed with the sometimes delicate balance of your negative feedback loops. Heroin is an agonist for...dopamine I believe? And dopamine is made in pretty constant amounts, so throwing out those feedback loops can change them permanently. But then, I don't know any specific details, just patching a description together from animal physiology knowledge. :P