Pokemon Umbral Theatre 1: Where All the Lurkers...Ah...Lurk

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Go look for it, ya lazy dick. It was back when I was still posting plans. In fact, one second.
PCHOOOO
...
AH, HERE WE GO.


...
WOW WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT. SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT MENARKER PROPOSED. ONLY MORE COMPREHENSIVE. AND MORE AWESOME. DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE SURE THAT WASN'T THE CASE BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO CALL ME OUT ON THAT?

A) That was the least offensive thing I said in my post, B) it wasn't meant to be offensive, don't get testy. C) I was short on time, so I couldn't've looked it up. D) I couldn't've waited, because by then (now), Menarker and you would've posted and made my question moot or overshadowed it with bigger problems.

Originally Posted by Geminex

WOW WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT AS WELL. I'M TALKING ABOUT INFLUENCING THE ENEMY'S TARGETING (which, AB, by the way, interpreted correctly as "decide which enemy attacks hit whom") SEVERAL HUNDRED POSTS BEFORE YOU. HUH. WEIRD, ISN'T IT?
Seriously. That's the second time that I propose something for Impact and then you ask for it for one of your characters. Cease thine Plagiarism, foul non-demon.

Originally Posted by Menarker

>_> I "threatened" to slap Drac for copying my custom move I've planned for Umbreon even longer than you did which involved targetting. Don't make me consider a 2 for 1 special! =P

OH FOR GOD'S SAKES, YOU MORONS.

COMING UP WITH A TECHNIQUE INVOLVING A MECHANIC THAT IS PERFECTLY VIABLE FOR ANYONE DOES NOT GIVE YOU EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO IT.

ESPECIALLY WHEN SAID MECHANIC, YOUR "INFLUENCING ENEMY TARGETTING" IS FUCKING FROM THE GODDAMN GAMES (Follow Me).

This applies to all of them. If I were to come up with a technique for Pierce that involves a stat boost, I don't want Geminex getting all up in my grill because I plagiarized his Dark Ambition. If I come up with a technique for Sophia that involves protecting an ally or using an extra item, I don't want Menarker dropping the copyright hammer on my balls.

Similarly, I won't be crying if you guys come up with techniques that allow you more actions per turn, or inflict Null Turn on the enemies or some such.

That is, of course, only when the general idea is being copied. If I gave Pierce a technique that used Protect on any allies willing to pay a certain amount of Rage, or gave Sophia a technique that made the Enforcers attack from the rearguard, then you can bitch.

Get it? Good. Now, if I hear you two whining again because that dude came up with a technique that inflicted more damage when allies are at full health which is kinda sorta like my technique that deals more damage when all the allies are dead

*stops to take a breath*

I will make you pay.

Yes, I just made a threat. Don't believe me? Call me on it and watch me make your lives a living hell when I plagiarize all your moves for a start, and claim copyright on all damage-dealing techniques because MY TECHNIQUES INVOLVED DEALING DAMAGE FIRST STFU. Or you can just shut up and admit I'm right.

Geminex, my outburst over your example Tactical Action? Wasn't about plagiarism. It was that I thought you'd rejected my Trainer Actions as overpowered when I had one that was just like yours.

Still, I apologize for the way I worded it.

PS: I assume the first time I took something you proposed for myself was Half-Demonness?

Originally Posted by Geminex

What. What're you talking about.
The system I mean is the "Customize your own character growth" system. As opposed to the "Be limited to 4 non-customizable classes and one hugely customizable class" system. The former is better, and more logical. I prefer it.
Which do you prefer?

Well, sorry. You made a comment earlier about "no one knowing how to combine the classes" or whatever and it just spoke to me of your proposed support system.

Still, it's not that we don't know how to combine the classes. It's that someone had some things they wanted to clarify, and there's nothing wrong with that. It does not instantly mean we're stupid morons and the system is too confusing. And, well, there was also Menarker being Menarker.

So hey AB, could you clarify how PC dual-classes would work once and for all that so there's no confusion, or no belief that there's confusion?

I believe you've already said that Trainer and Snagger won't mesh well, but let's say that someone was to take a character all the way up to level 10 in both classes. They'd be severely gimped because they'd get a bunch of upgrades they've already got, but eventually they would be able to have six pokemon and snag two more, and have ability shifts and custom moves and Xth-level pokemon, and fancy Snagball status effects?

As for PC Battle Masters, I believe they can only have two combatants out at any one time, which could very well be two pokemon, or one pokemon and the Battle Master themself, correct? And they'd carry six items.

Same for PC Legion Mages.

Anyway, don't worry about making us feel stupid. God knows we are if we have to keep asking this.

As to your question, Geminex. I pick secret option number C: "keep the classes, but be able to customize them based on how many level of each you want to take."

Originally Posted by Geminex

Ok, now I'm sure you're just trolling.

When am I not?

Originally Posted by Geminex

Impact will be the villain. I will have plot power.

That's irrelevant. The heroes (us) can have plot power too, as shown by Charlotte when she derailed the plot by putting Moon in the hospital.

Presumably, we can influence it even more. AB's pretty lenient like that.

So I have as much right as you to walk up to AB and ask him what my character's role is going to involve for the sequel. Or something like that.

Originally Posted by Geminex

How on earth has he told me "more about the sequel than he should"? Mind you, in your defense, you can't know how much he told me.
Or even know what he told me.
H3H3H3H3H3

Ah, but how would you know how much I know?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And yeah. Of course. He doesn't have to tell me anything. But I haven't been pestering him for information about the sequel. I have asked him a single question about it and my character's role in it. Am I somehow abusing my right to speak to AB? Does our great and august GM suffer so through my endless (EEEENDLEEEEEE---------ES) questions that he needs you to tell me to shut up? Have I ever implied that it's not his right not to tell me stuff? No?
Then how about I tuck you in bed with a big, warm glass of Shut The Fuck Up.

Hm, point.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Seriously, don't do that. I don't like you when you're a presumptuous dick. Oh, wait, turns out I've never really liked you. Do you think there might be a correlation?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

And if you don't like me, why did you friend me?

Originally Posted by Geminex

Except for, y'know, everything that someone who is not me proposes. Glad to see that we're FAIR AND BALANCED in this RP thread.

To be fair, you propose things a lot more often than the rest of us, so of course your proposal-to-rejections ratio is going to be a lot higher than ours.

All of us have had some suggestions rejected? We don't go sulk in the corner, or start playing victim. We compromise.

I'm not saying you don't compromise either, but when you do it it's more like "Dracorion how dare you defy me! If you will not recognize the stupidity of your stance, I will deign myself to lower my standards to appease you. This time."

Just because our stances don't fall in line with yours doesn't instantly make us wrong! And you do give off that "I'm always right" vibe all the time.

Originally Posted by Geminex

I'm not! I'm saying I'm hesitant to accept because I think he may have snuck something past me, and I wanna take time to make sure he hasn't. I'm not rejecting it on grounds of mistrust. Hell, if we allowed mutual mistrust to stop us from accepting each other's deals, we wouldn't actually get anywhere.

Fair enough, my mistake. Sorry. I was a little too aggresive in that post.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And no, I haven't seen the revised versions of your utterly, utterly overpowered techniques. I you repost them I will be sure to give them an unbiased look. Yes.

Let's see if I can't round them up...

Combined Attack: Pick one of Pierce's pokemon from the field. That pokemon's attack move gains the same type as Pierce's other pokemon's primary type, but the power stays the same.

Okay, this one's crappily worded. Basically, say Tyranitar and Blaziken are out. Tyranitar uses Earthquake and Pierce uses Combined Attack. Tyranitar's Earthquake is now Ground/Fire, and the move's power stays the same.


Menarker noticed there would be some confusion about what would happen if the target of Tyranitar's attack were, say, a Flying-type, so he suggested this to clarify and I approved:

1) The main attacker attack gets divided into two like Double Hit (dividing power in half respectively for each hit).
2) The first hit being the type of the move the attacking pokemon (Tyranitar in this case) uses. The second hit being the primary type of the second pokemon (Blaziken in this case). Thus, the first hit would be ground and the second one would be fire with your example.
3) The total base power is equal to the move that it is based on.
4) All bonuses such as STAB that apply to the first hit also apply to the second even if it wouldn't normally. Both hits use the attack or special attack stat of the main attacker. (Technically, Tyranitar is a rock/dark type so no STAB with your previous example.)

Trainer Attack: Pierce attacks alongside one of his pokemon. That pokemon's attack has 2x chance of inflicting the status associated to Pierce's weapon.

Basically, since Pierce's weapons are the Dragon Slave and the Phantom Staff, one pokemon's attack would either have a 100% chance to decrease the target's Special Defense by -1, or a 50% chance of instant death.


Menarker said it would be overpowered, and he thought that Pierce's attack power would buff the move's power which is not the case. So I clarified:

I mean, something like:

Blaziken uses Fire Blast!
Pierce uses Trainer Attack! Pierce attacks Blaziken's target, except he doesn't actually do damage. In fact, for all intents and purposes, it counts as part of Blaziken's Fire Blast, and adds a chance to cause Instant Death or reduce Special Defense by one stage (depending on which weapon Pierce is using, and based on the chances those weapons normally have of inflicting statuses). No extra damage or anything.

Get it now?

Basically, if Pierce used his Dragon Slave Blaziken's move would have a 50% chance of decreasing the target's Special Defense by 1, or if he used the Phantom Staff it'd have a 25% chance to inflict instant death. Trainer Attack would not cause any more damage.

Menarker said:

So basically you're applying the Slayer effect of the weapon element you use onto a pokekmon move that your affected pokemon uses... But technically, the effect seems like it would be the same if Pierce was just attacking directly, since you aren't applying power to the move and all you're doing is adding the slayer stat affliction of the weapon Pierce is holding.
Is that about right?

Five-Star Deluxe Special: Chizuru cooks up a meal for both of Pierce's pokemon on the field. A small regenerative effect is applied to them.


Menarker thought it would be too weak like that, so I suggested making it either A) regenerate 3/32 of one or both pokemon's maximum HP (1/16 + 50%), or B) heal 10% of one or both pokemon's max HP.

Yes, that would be more regeneration that Leftovers provide, but let's face is, Leftovers are completely worthless right now.

Menarker said: Well... Gem might yell at me, and I apologize if I go overboard... but for Five Star Deluxe I would have it target a single pokemon but regenerate a 20% of max health every turn. Significant enough to be of SOME use during combat, but it won't save you for being ganged up, or at least for long. "Expect no less from Chizuru's cooking"

Which I don't necessarily agree with.

Mock: Pierce taunts one enemy. One enemy's attack is redirected at one of Pierce's pokemon. Multi-target attacks would be centered on Pierce's pokemon. The pokemon targetted does not gain Rage when this Trainer Action is used.


Menarker brought up that I could have a pokemon use Protect and then use this Trainer Action to redirect an enemy's attack at that pokemon, making it effectively a Null Turn move.

So I suggested that the pokemon targetted doesn't take an action, but it does gain Rage.

Willpower: Both of Pierce's pokemon gain 50% resistance to being afflicted with statuses until the end of the turn.

Menarker thought this one was fine as is.

Originally Posted by Menarker

On a similar note, I did say that Drac's techniques even when edited might be too strong to get all at once. That Drac might have to forgo a few of them just on the basis that having 2 or 3 of them might be ok, but all five would border on too diverse.

In that case, you should propose to AB that we grant Trainer Actions with upgrades. Something like, 3 Trainer Actions are Trainer level 3 and 5 at level 5.

Of course, since we're all almost at level 5, that's pretty much irrelevant, isn't it?

Unless you want to lump them into Breeder territory, which we might end up customizing for ourselves anyway, so not much point putting them in there.

You might say that Pierce getting five Trainer Actions at once would be two diverse. Even if he were only going to get like three now, he would have to get the other two at the start of his sidequest, which is like two seconds away.

Y'see? Not much point to making us wait for more Trainer Actions.

[Astral Harmony]

I have to get to work soon, but it shouldn't be that long before I'm done with the day.

Gem, go ahead and show me these ideas you have with your Tactical Actions. I'll...do what I can.

And don't think you'll just be sitting on your ass in the sequel. That won't garner any respect from your subordinates and then you'd soon have a mutiny on your ass. You know the game Overlord? That motherfucker had all those Minions and did he just sit on his throne and await his gold and mistresses? Hell, no. That motherfucker picked up his two-handed axe and went out there and earned that shit.

Anyways, I'll go over that orange shit Dracorian posted at the top of this page as soon as I get off of work.

[Dracorion]

To be fair, what's the point of having Minions if you're going to get up and do everything yourself?

Still, there's nothing wrong with personally quelling a rebellion or two. Can't lose your edge, after all. Why, what would happen if a battalion of freedom fighters crashed into your throne room where you've been sitting on your ass for the last twenty years?

Slaughter is what happens.

[Astral Harmony]

Well, in Overlord, it's more like strategy between yourself and your Minions. For whatever reason, it had to be your Minions who did stuff like pick up artifacts, turn capstans, put out fires, and destroy toxic flora. And more often than not, unless you work hard and enchant your weapons and armor (which requires, guess what, your Minions), then chances are that the Overlord could be overwhelmed when engaged against a dozen enemies at once.

I just think that Geminex isn't aware that holding control of the Pokemon World will not be an easy feat at all, and it's definitely not a job one can do while sitting on a throne, having some busty wench feeding him grapes with some overdressed messenger telling him what's up and awaiting his commands.

I haven't gone into all the details or listed everything, but Honmyr is very unstable. From superpowerful Pokemon to mercenaries on almost every street corner and places above and below ground that you just can't go to because they're filled with things that are Pokemon and things that...well...aren't, Honmyr is chock full of things that go bump any time of day. I mean, most regions have just a police force. Honmyr has a police force, PATCA, and the Prideguard reinforced with mechanical juggernauts, warships, and some of the most powerful people in the world. Honmyr needs those things. If Impact sits on his ass after he conquers the world, he's not going to sit on it for long because somebody's going to kick it.

[Dracorion]

Geminex is like one of those child prodigies that could be Einstein but they never actually get there.

And of course, none of them know that they're not going to be Einstein until they're fifty-years-old still working as an accountant.

Okay, that's enough Geminex bashing. I have a feeling he's going to have more things to worry about than us PCs.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

OH FOR GOD'S SAKES, YOU MORONS.

COMING UP WITH A TECHNIQUE INVOLVING A MECHANIC THAT IS PERFECTLY VIABLE FOR ANYONE DOES NOT GIVE YOU EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO IT.

ESPECIALLY WHEN SAID MECHANIC, YOUR "INFLUENCING ENEMY TARGETTING" IS FUCKING FROM THE GODDAMN GAMES (Follow Me).

This applies to all of them. If I were to come up with a technique for Pierce that involves a stat boost, I don't want Geminex getting all up in my grill because I plagiarized his Dark Ambition. If I come up with a technique for Sophia that involves protecting an ally or using an extra item, I don't want Menarker dropping the copyright hammer on my balls.

Similarly, I won't be crying if you guys come up with techniques that allow you more actions per turn, or inflict Null Turn on the enemies or some such.

That is, of course, only when the general idea is being copied. If I gave Pierce a technique that used Protect on any allies willing to pay a certain amount of Rage, or gave Sophia a technique that made the Enforcers attack from the rearguard, then you can bitch.

Get it? Good. Now, if I hear you two whining again because that dude came up with a technique that inflicted more damage when allies are at full health which is kinda sorta like my technique that deals more damage when all the allies are dead

*stops to take a breath*

I will make you pay.

Yes, I just made a threat. Don't believe me? Call me on it and watch me make your lives a living hell when I plagiarize all your moves for a start, and claim copyright on all damage-dealing techniques because MY TECHNIQUES INVOLVED DEALING DAMAGE FIRST STFU. Or you can just shut up and admit I'm right.

If I can just clarify myself a bit Drac, I was joking around when I "threatened" to slap you for copying my technique. I said all that and continued to proceeded to help you modify your technique in the same breath and thus approved it once you modified it. So I really had no problem with you or anyone else using similar mechanics whatsoever.

Then Gem seemed to went possessive for similar reasons (although whether he was joking or not I'll leave between the two of you to decide). And I basically joked back saying that my idea which was based on the same mechanic was older than HIS move, so he has no right complaining, since based on that logic, I was the first one to consider the idea and thus the alleged "copyright". :3

[Geminex]

Dracorion:

COMING UP WITH A TECHNIQUE INVOLVING A MECHANIC THAT IS PERFECTLY VIABLE FOR ANYONE DOES NOT GIVE YOU EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO IT.

Hey, I wouldn't have mentioned it if you hadn't gone "I just posted something like that!".
And ok, so maybe it wasn't about plagiarism. But the argument as you meant it to be didn't make sense. This is (or, rather, will be, I hope) part of my upgrades. Means I don't get it for free. Which is the entire problem I have with your stuff. It's not excessively strong as it is. There's nothing wrong with it in those regards. But you're asking to get it without having to level-up, without having to sacrifice any particular skill for it. And because that's the case, those techniques are way to strong. Since there's no need for balancing either. There's no need to get a free upgrade. You just want one. And AB's giving it to you.
And no, the credit for the half-demoness thing is entirely yours. I don't even remember that.


And there's a difference between "influencing the plot through your in-character actions" and "Deciding OOC what will happen to NPCs and the party"
You will be doing the former. I will be doing the latter. I think.
And yes, you have the right to ask him that. But I have more of a right than you, because, y'know, the plot will involve my character doing certain things, whether I want him to or not.
But let us end this particular element of the discussion for it is stupid.

Ah, but how would you know how much I know?

That is also stupid.

And if you don't like me, why did you friend me?

Look, I was drunk and it was a mistake, ok? It happened one time, and it doesn't mean anything!

Ok, so maybe I give off the "I'm always right" vibe. But come on, I propose something 5 threads ago, and it gets rejected as "doesn't make any sense why would that even happen". Menarker proposes it now, justifies it a lot less well, and suddenly AB's like "I hadn't thought of that!". YES. YOU HAD. YOU READ A GREAT BIG LONG PARAGRAPH ABOUT IT BEFORE TELLING ME I WAS STUPID FOR SUGGESTING IT.

And now the same thing with the Trainer actions vs. Tactical actions! He's perfectly open to you guys asking for a free upgrade, but when I propose a way to make my upgrades logical (because he already approved all the abilities, all I'm trying to do is regulate how Impact uses them. Because giving him a dozen rage-using techniques would be stupid, and so would just letting him use each technique once per turn for free) he instantly goes "no, next RP". And even if I propose more stuff than you guys do, proposals should be weighed on their own merits, not rejected because one of my things already got accepted last thread. It's not like I'm asking for favors, after all, I'm try to improve the RP.

And come on. When have I ever sulked or played victim when one of my things got rejected? I always compromise, always try to make some sort of deal we both benefit from! And I'm not that condescending when I do so (only when I see your objection as utterly unjustified and/or only there to troll me(. And I'm not sulking either. I'm just pointing out that there seem to be some inconsistencies regarding what gets accepted and what doesn't. Worst-case, AB calls me a Whaaambulance, best-case he becomes more open to the stuff I suggest.

Though AB, please ignore the above bit. I'm making a point to Drac, I don't actually mean to complain anymore. See below for my response to your stuff.

And like I said, the moves all seem interesting, but there's honestly no reason for you to get them for free...
If you put them into breeder, replace some other upgrade with them, great! I'd be behind that, because it's creative and pretty awesome. Or even if you really want them now, you could replace, I dunno, your leader pokemon with them? Or maybe go back to having just 4 pokemon in your team? I don't mind how you do it. But I'm heavily against you getting an upgrade of this magnitude for free without a shred of justification (because that paragraph at the end of your post doesn't actually make a point), unless, like I said, pokebrids and slayers get something similar, also for free.

Nope, I meant more powerful custom items for pokebrids (a somewhat higher level upgrade). He wants more effectiveness with support? He can work with that. He wants MORE POWER? He got that covered. Kinda cater more to his playing style. >_>

Ok, that's cool. As long as it's "At a higher level".

And I don't put it past you to power up pokebrid and then decide you'd prefer that class, citing my extensive objections to your choosing Slayer as a reason for your sudden switch, but very well. Benefit of the doubt and all that.
Like I said, if we power up sync-techs a little, make it so you don't need to be paradigm-shifted to use them, I think pokebrids should be fine. You're right that they're not as strong defensively, but they're weaker in their "normal" form cause they're really strong when they're shifted.

Refer to the bolded part to see which part I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure AB intended that a new sync-tech becomes unlocked when they get a new form and Devas might end up with more than the max of 3 forms and at different levels than when everyone else gets them. I honestly wouldn't vouch for that. Let them get more Devas levels if they want more forms and thus more techs.

And if AB intended that, fine. He can do that. I'm just saying that it really doesn't make much sense for pokebrids to get their signature techniques with each new form, rather than with levels like all the other classes (except, admittedly, demon). I'm also saying that it would be more sense if sync-techs were treated like signature techniques, with all the applicable limitations and benefits. And if AB really wants them to have a lot of forms and a technique for each, we could give pokebrids the choice of foregoing their relationship techs in favor of more sync-techs. I think Matt might certainly benefit from that.

Ok, first, I've actually played Overlord once, at a friend's house, and I stopped in disgust after half an hour. That's just... not how you do it.
Mind you, I'd be happy to have Impact actually do something in this RP!
But the whole "Ooh, look at me, I am evil, I wear evil clothing, I do evil, if surprisingly petty things, I have an evil chair, muahahaha!" thing is stupid. Impact's goal won't be "Be evil". He'll have a series of goals, and he'll act in accordance with those goals. He will do what makes those goals more likely. He's evil in that he's ruthless in support of those goals, and in that those goals aren't always very nice, but I won't make him more evil or overlord-esque for the sole purpose of actually making him seem more like a villain.
...
Just sayin'.

And like I mentioned above, Tactions will just be a way to manage all the stuff Impact will be doing. I asked for a variety of abilities, and you seemed to be ok with those. But how to manage them? Making them all rage-fuelled would be sorta stupid, cause he already has barely enough rage to use all his techniques with, let alone to use all the other stuff he's gonna get.
So, I thought it'd be good to introduce tactical actions with which he pays for the abilities he uses. He'd get, like, two tactical actions per turn to begin with, and three abilities to use them with, and as he levels up, he'd get more actions per turn, and a greater wealth of abilities. I'd still get a bit of stuff for combat, but by level 10, Impact's main role would be "strategic supporter", and by level 15 that would be even more the case. And I mean, he doesn't have to be the only one to use that system. You said you were thinking of coming up with a scout class (or, well, I complained that there wasn't one and you said ok), that could employ something similar.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

And ok, so maybe it wasn't about plagiarism. But the argument as you meant it to be didn't make sense. This is (or, rather, will be, I hope) part of my upgrades. Means I don't get it for free. Which is the entire problem I have with your stuff. It's not excessively strong as it is. There's nothing wrong with it in those regards. But you're asking to get it without having to level-up, without having to sacrifice any particular skill for it. And because that's the case, those techniques are way to strong. Since there's no need for balancing either. There's no need to get a free upgrade. You just want one. And AB's giving it to you.

Technically, we're not getting them for free.

We're retroactively replacing the old Trainer Attack upgrade for them. We've already spent a level on them, see?

I like Trainer Actions, man. I want 'em. So I came up with my five and, instead of going over your heads and taking them to AB, I asked you, so we could come up with something reasonable together.

Hell, I'm not even against you getting your Tactical Actions either.

I'm just, y'know, asking for your help balancing my Trainer Actions. Or, if you think it can't be done, we take it to AB.

So hey AB, Geminex and Menarker have a problem with Trainer Actions, and I do kinda see their point. Maybe we could, I dunno, knock he number down to three or come up with something else entirely to replace Trainer Attack?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And no, the credit for the half-demoness thing is entirely yours. I don't even remember that.

Well then, what were you referring to?

Originally Posted by Geminex

Look, I was drunk and it was a mistake, ok? It happened one time, and it doesn't mean anything!

BUT I THOUGHT YOU LOVED ME.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Ok, so maybe I give off the "I'm always right" vibe. But come on, I propose something 5 threads ago, and it gets rejected as "doesn't make any sense why would that even happen". Menarker proposes it now, justifies it a lot less well, and suddenly AB's like "I hadn't thought of that!". YES. YOU HAD. YOU READ A GREAT BIG LONG PARAGRAPH ABOUT IT BEFORE TELLING ME I WAS STUPID FOR SUGGESTING IT.

Yeah, I don't really know what's up with that. I think it's because your main point was giving Pokebrids Sig-techs instead of Synch-techs and we didn't like that.

I think it's cool that pokebrids get a Synchronization Technique for every new form.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And now the same thing with the Trainer actions vs. Tactical actions! He's perfectly open to you guys asking for a free upgrade, but when I propose a way to make my upgrades logical (because he already approved all the abilities, all I'm trying to do is regulate how Impact uses them. Because giving him a dozen rage-using techniques would be stupid, and so would just letting him use each technique once per turn for free) he instantly goes "no, next RP". And even if I propose more stuff than you guys do, proposals should be weighed on their own merits, not rejected because one of my things already got accepted last thread. It's not like I'm asking for favors, after all, I'm try to improve the RP.

Oh, AB probably misunderstood you. I mean, Tactical Actions does sound like a sequel thing, because even though you'll be coming out to play every now and then, most of the time Impact'll be sitting in his throne watching his minions fight the heroes.

Also, I'm not saying your proposals are getting rejected because you make too many of them.

I'm saying, all of us make suggestions. Some of those suggestions get rejected for perfectly valid reasons. You make the most suggestions, therefore your suggestions that get rejected for perfectly valid reasons will be more than ours.

I mean seriously dude, just because you proposed it doesn't make it an instant winner.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And come on. When have I ever sulked or played victim when one of my things got rejected?

Right now, whining about your Tactical Actions.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And like I said, the moves all seem interesting, but there's honestly no reason for you to get them for free...
If you put them into breeder, replace some other upgrade with them, great! I'd be behind that, because it's creative and pretty awesome. Or even if you really want them now, you could replace, I dunno, your leader pokemon with them? Or maybe go back to having just 4 pokemon in your team? I don't mind how you do it. But I'm heavily against you getting an upgrade of this magnitude for free without a shred of justification (because that paragraph at the end of your post doesn't actually make a point), unless, like I said, pokebrids and slayers get something similar, also for free.

I really don't wanna put them into Breeder. Why? Because there's other stuff that's more important to me to get and I'm probably only going to get one level of Breeder, unless you were to let me customize my own Slayer levels or something.

And hell, even I don't think I should get to customize my Slayer levels.

And seriously? Giving up a leader or going back to four pokemon? Jesus dude, they're not that strong.

I mean, the upgrade we spent (wasted) on Trainer Attack isn't even worth at least three not-so-powerful-but-still-better-than-trainer-attack Trainer Actions?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And I don't put it past you to power up pokebrid and then decide you'd prefer that class, citing my extensive objections to your choosing Slayer as a reason for your sudden switch, but very well. Benefit of the doubt and all that.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And if AB intended that, fine. He can do that. I'm just saying that it really doesn't make much sense for pokebrids to get their signature techniques with each new form, rather than with levels like all the other classes (except, admittedly, demon). I'm also saying that it would be more sense if sync-techs were treated like signature techniques, with all the applicable limitations and benefits. And if AB really wants them to have a lot of forms and a technique for each, we could give pokebrids the choice of foregoing their relationship techs in favor of more sync-techs. I think Matt might certainly benefit from that.

As everyone likes to mention, Pokebrid's strong suit is their diversity. Why shouldn't that also apply to their Techniques, too?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And like I mentioned above, Tactions will just be a way to manage all the stuff Impact will be doing. I asked for a variety of abilities, and you seemed to be ok with those. But how to manage them? Making them all rage-fuelled would be sorta stupid, cause he already has barely enough rage to use all his techniques with, let alone to use all the other stuff he's gonna get.
So, I thought it'd be good to introduce tactical actions with which he pays for the abilities he uses. He'd get, like, two tactical actions per turn to begin with, and three abilities to use them with, and as he levels up, he'd get more actions per turn, and a greater wealth of abilities. I'd still get a bit of stuff for combat, but by level 10, Impact's main role would be "strategic supporter", and by level 15 that would be even more the case. And I mean, he doesn't have to be the only one to use that system. You said you were thinking of coming up with a scout class (or, well, I complained that there wasn't one and you said ok), that could employ something similar.

... You do realize that with Trainer Actions we'd only be able to use one at a time, right?

And AB, whatever [I]did [/BI]happen to that Scout specialty that Gem proposed?

[Astral Harmony]

Let me go ahead and address all the orange text before I enjoy these illegally downloaded hentai games.

And City of Heroes some more.

So hey AB, could you clarify how PC dual-classes would work once and for all that so there's no confusion, or no belief that there's confusion?

I believe you've already said that Trainer and Snagger won't mesh well, but let's say that someone was to take a character all the way up to level 10 in both classes. They'd be severely gimped because they'd get a bunch of upgrades they've already got, but eventually they would be able to have six pokemon and snag two more, and have ability shifts and custom moves and Xth-level pokemon, and fancy Snagball status effects?

As for PC Battle Masters, I believe they can only have two combatants out at any one time, which could very well be two pokemon, or one pokemon and the Battle Master themself, correct? And they'd carry six items.

Same for PC Legion Mages.

Anyway, don't worry about making us feel stupid. God knows we are if we have to keep asking this.

The NPC Snagger recruited during Mission 4 will actually be this class. I'm not certain how badly a Trainer/Snagger dual class will actually be in relation to other dual classes. I guess we'll both find out when we see her performance in battle.

You've pretty much nailed everything right down correctly. I wish I had that talent.

And AB, whatever did happen to that Scout specialty that Gem proposed?

Never got off the ground. I had completely forgotten all about it, and I think everyone else did, but you just had to go and bring it back up. Gawd, you always do this! I banish you to go work at a Banana Republic!

So hey AB, Geminex and Menarker have a problem with Trainer Actions, and I do kinda see their point. Maybe we could, I dunno, knock he number down to three or come up with something else entirely to replace Trainer Attack?

Let's do this. Every even level of the Trainer/Breeder class (Trainer 2, Trainer 4, Breeder 1, Breeder 3, Breeder 5), we allow another Trainer Action. Then...oh, set the Trainer Attack for maybe just Trainer level 1.

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And I'm sorry about the Tactical Actions nonsense, all right? It's just...I'm kind of feeling that if we keep throwing all this stuff in, then there isn't anything to look forward to in the sequel. I wanna do lotsa shit with it (attributes, terrain and move, Harem Techs, a Knomere Pokebrid form, etc.) and it's only Mission 3. All I'm saying is that the sequel is going to be huge in its own right, and believe me, skills and abilities that you don't learn until then will most certainly not be useless.

[Geminex]

We're retroactively replacing the old Trainer Attack upgrade for them. We've already spent a level on them, see?

I understand that much. But your old trainer actions were a weak attack. And they were appropriate for that level, all the classes got about equal upgrades during that level. The stuff you're proposing now now is far more useful than that! You're getting buffed, retroactively. Your level 2 is now much stronger than anyone else's level 2. And you don't need that buff, goddammit. The other classes need it way more!

Which is why I'm not even balancing it. I'm saying "not for free". When you concede that point, then we can get to balancing.

And AB's solution is better, since you're getting the stuff more gradually, but trainers are still getting a buff.
So AB, what are Slayers and Brids gonna get in return? Cause they have to get something. I... insist.

I'm saying, all of us make suggestions. Some of those suggestions get rejected for perfectly valid reasons. You make the most suggestions, therefore your suggestions that get rejected for perfectly valid reasons will be more than ours.

Oh, sure. But you were talking about "a higher ratio". And if we're talking ratios, then the amount of proposals should be irrelevant.

As everyone likes to mention, Pokebrid's strong suit is their diversity. Why shouldn't that also apply to their Techniques, too?

Because, like I said, they'd be the only class for whom signature techniques work differently. And honestly, how would we do it if Matt takes some levels in another class? Would he start getting techniques normally?

... You do realize that with Trainer Actions we'd only be able to use one at a time, right?

Why're you comparing tactions with trainer actions? They have nothing to do with each other.

And AB, this isn't a big thing I'm asking for! Certainly not so big that it should have to wait until the sequel. You already said yes to tall the stuff I asked for for Impact's demon upgrade, right? Power up allies, depower enemies, scout the enemy, do crippling damage when it's necessary, you were fine with that, right?
The question is, how to implement it? Are you just gonna give Impact a bunch of rage-using techniques? If that's the case, you'd have to massively buff his rage generation to pretty much destroyer levels, because using techniques is gonna be his main role. He'll be a caster, he needs to be able to cast a lot.
But I think rage should be separate. Let it remain fuel for sig-techs and other combat abilities. And that's why I recommended tactical actions. They're seperate from rage, but they still serve to ration Impact's ability use. It's a rationing mechanism, not a whole new combat system! It's not that big a thing.