Please say I'm not the only one...

[Wjolf]

Genetic manipulation is just plain wrong! Sure, many cool and wonderful things could be achieved if used properly, but just look at our government here! What smart things have they truly done in the last ten years? Back on topic though, I have had to do many research papers covering genetic manipulation in all its forms for my classes, and they all end badly.
There are several articles about manipulating plants genetically, to make our cows and pigs have more meat on them and be more healthy for us in general, and the damn BT corn that was fed to them made them infertile! If humans had a chance to eat that meat, who's to say it wouldn't make us infertile, and thence wipe out the whole of humanity in the long run?
STUPIDITY!!!!

[Cracked But Not Broken]

Honestly your thread was pretty much stupidity, but thats just my opinion. Ya, those dudes are playing god and geneticly making a completely new species, half man-half sheep, but like krylo said, as long as they don't start to conciesly think, or become sentient, then there still sheep, and in the long run, if they werent geneticaly manipulated, they would end up being lamb chops and winter jackets anyways, so why not save a couple of thousands of lives in the run...

[Angelfire Blackwolf]

This isn't a new thing, people have been manipulating genetics for a long long time. Granted not in the same way as they're doing now, but by selective breeding of plants and animals to gain higher yields, more meat ect.

There have also been cases for genetic manipulation. I'll take as my example the manufacture of insulin for diabeties sufferers. Before the onset of genetic manipulation scientists found that pigs, and other animals could produce insulin that would be compatable with humans. So they took the pancreas from those dead animals and extracted the insulin that was prouced by them. This has been put aside now for the safer method of producing insulin through genetic manipulation of e-coli.

For those that want to know the theory and practice behind the production of insulin through genetic manipulation the scientific explanations are here

That was just an example of how genetic engineering is actually not as bad as most people make out. It's not the root of all evil. Now back on topic.

I'll agree there are limits in what people should and should not do when it comes to trying to mix human and animal organs. There are rights and wrongs for example...

Doctors have transplanted pig valves into human hearts for years

I have no objection to this sort of thing, mainly because of the lives saved by the technique. There are also very little outcry over this... why? Because there's nothing percieved to be wrong with it. Other than the normal chance of rejection which people run the risk of in all transplant operations.

The other side of the coin though, implanting human organs into animals, well people percieve animals to be mindless and to see any sort of humanlike intelligence in an animal is a frightening thought. Still the fact remains that most organs are mindless.. it's only the brain cells implanted that could cause that kind of effect. What concerns me more if this is carried out is the possibility of animal diseases spreading to humans far more easily than they can do now.

Zanjani must first ensure no animal diseases would be passed on to patients. He also must find an efficient way to completely separate the human and sheep cells, a tough task because the human cells aren't clumped together but are rather spread throughout the sheep's liver

This is the case in point. An illness in a sheep, would not just be confined to the cells of the original animal, but will spread to the human ones because of close proximity to sheep cells. The disease will have an effective area to mutate therefore creating a more dangerous illness.

I think this needs to be thought out more fully before any such transplants go ahead.

(now forgive my rambling... )

[Phobic]

First off, this is a good thing. Granted, eventually we want to be able to grow organs for transplant in test tubes rather than animals, but for now the animals are a great advancement.

As for animals that think like humans, refering to the section about lab rats with brains made up almost entirely of human brain cells. This is in the grey area, but I personaly believe that the research that can be done into degenerative brain disease outweighs any moral issue involving a sentient mouse. But i agree this is very close to the line of being wrong.

As for the stuff about genetic engineering and this all ending horribly. I doubt it. We've been genetically engineering plants for years. If you eat tomatoes there is a fair chance that you've eaten at least one with jelly-fish DNA in it. There are many other similar crossings and tweaks we've done to other crops, and the human race isn't dead yet.

[Azisien]

The key of all that being YET!!! Ahem. Well, I'm actually for all this stuff, so we can pretend I never said that.

Humans have been genetically altering plants and animals for years, now all we need in that statement is the addition of 'hundreds of' right before years, and you've got it right.

The technology is getting better, but the goal remains the same.

You're afraid of sentient animals? What about sentient machines? Because we'll be at that level some day too (and probably in our lifetime). I'm confused, honestly. Are you jealous of the animal? Do you believe only humans deserve sentience? Oh wait...that would be bringing in the big bad R word.

To the people who think we are playing God. Firstly, *slap*, No R word! Secondly *slap*, no for a completely different reason. We don't have wings, but we took to the skies. Then we went to space. We have the minds to perform these amazing feats, why restrict ourselves because a bunch of ninnies are afraid of a squirrel that might beat them in algebra.

Need I remind everyone that animals gaining sentience by receiving human tissue is completely and utterly spectulative. Granted, they seem to have the grounds for the possibility. But then, I've got a lamp beside my fish tank, and I haven't seen my guppies Kamehameha yet.

Bad things will come of this area of study if the wrong people do the wrong things. But WHEN IS THAT EVER DIFFERENT ANYWHERE ELSE?!?!?! WHY BLAME THE FIELD ITSELF FOR THAT?!?! This computer sucks because I keep making it crash through my own lack of knowledge. Stupid fucking computer!

[Robot Jesus]

The only grounds I can think of for opposing this is as follows.

1 its open too abuse, we’ve seen too much science fiction. Please indulge our paranoia. This is reason for caution but does not apply to the moral argument in the slightest.

2 man is unique created by (insert name of imaginary being) and creating something like with would be an insult to (him/her/it). Surprised this hasn’t shown up yet, and I cant analyze in detail for what should be obvious reasons.

3 an animal might become self aware and that makes our philosophy towards mans place in the world really really complex. I think this could be solved if we created a self aware animal who actually wanted to be eaten, and could say so clearly

[Viridis]

That reminds me of 'The Restuarant at The End of the Universe' A cow walking up and offering what looked good today.

Yeah, this causes some real moral conumdrums... Animal rights activists would have a fit, try and counsel the animal...etc.

[Azisien]

I dunno, I'd probably be pretty proud if my guinea pigs started making little gnome people of their own. Carrying on the tradition, or something.

[Nique]

The only grounds I can think of for opposing this is as follows.

1 its open too abuse, we’ve seen too much science fiction. Please indulge our paranoia. This is reason for caution but does not apply to the moral argument in the slightest.

2 man is unique created by (insert name of imaginary being) and creating something like with would be an insult to (him/her/it). Surprised this hasn’t shown up yet, and I cant analyze in detail for what should be obvious reasons.

3 an animal might become self aware and that makes our philosophy towards mans place in the world really really complex. I think this could be solved if we created a self aware animal who actually wanted to be eaten, and could say so clearly

1. It WILL be misused in some form, so we have every right to be leary, with or without intrisic morality applied to it. History of scientific & technological advancment proves this.

2.Religious disscussions aren't allowed in the NPF, so why are you surprised? You're walking the line by calling the concept of God 'imaginery' anyway, so I don't think you need to bring that up. (Furthermore, a persons opinion on this entire topic may hinge on that belife/disbelife, and since we don't discuss that here, we come full circle and it is a moot point.)

3. I hope you aren't being serious.

[Hatake Kakashi]

My major wonder about this is merely thus:

We've figured out ways to preserve body parts during surgeries, how to sustain and even cultivate cells, organisms, and tissues within sterile environments such as petri-dishes and vats. I really don't see the need to include the animals in this sort of thing.

Forget religious arguments, forget morals or lack thereof, I'm talking about ethics and possible openings to diseases we would've never seen coming, bringing in a body part that, while made of our own cells, was grown and nourished in an environment completely foreign to that of the human body. What kind of risks are we taking?