Stargate SG1 Mafia

[Mesden]

Originally Posted by Skyshot

Bear in mind, you're assuming from the beginning that I'm scum. If I am indeed scum, that means there's an overall design to my posts which involves "kill all townies." You may now begin speculating as to an alternative reason I would instead take on the individual points, which I am of course implying is the better one. Partly because it means I get to live longer.

I've went over what I thought what else you might be before I made this whole accusation. I weigh what I think, and if you must know, it comes to this. Townies normally just seem a bit less pronounced and votelike as you. Especially newcomers to the game, and scum dominates everything else, too. There's more to it than that, but I'm not about to spell out my whole thought process for people to try to conflict and adapt against.

[Cephrir]

It occurs to me that we shouldn't lynch Skyshot if we think he's the cultist. The one cultist isn't a concern right now. We need to worry about the mafia above all else. The cultist currently has the same goals as the town: to kill mafiates. If you think Skyshot's mafia, then okay. But don't lynch him for being cult, because the cult isn't a threat anymore.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Townies normally just seem a bit less pronounced and votelike as you.

I have a problem with this. You can't generalize non-scum and then use that to judge people.

Originally Posted by Newb the Cult Leader

Sorry Skyshot, guess this means you can't win any more.

And I'm fairly certain Mesden is the PO. Although I give her a 20% chance of being the BG, and a 5% chance of not having a role.

I think both of you are town-aligned, because of this post. I mean, why not knock off two town-aligned people? Get us to lynch Skyshot and have Mesden killed by the Mafia/SK.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Mesden

Um...that was one point. 1. As in 1 thing that was only part of my main argument. Something which I said also didn't matter, and which to I think he agreed.

Kay, sorry I brought it up. I merely was looking through what was being said, and he summed up my opinion on this entire issue quite well. This is a circle, of you attacking and him defending and you attacking his defense because it "doesn't quite meet up to your expectations."

Originally Posted by Mesden

That is, without a doubt, not acceptable. He's even actually pseudo admitted to reading this game before(He knew of IC's gut feeling obsession).

No, it's quite acceptable. He's a new player, so he'll play like a new player. We can't all be you, Mesden.

Originally Posted by Mesden

In my argument, I'm saying how hasty he is and how he turns to, yes, being too cautious. Again, you leave out a point. The point that he is hasty at first.

And he learned. Moving on.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Yes, because he keeps missing the point. He never addresses the relevance of my argument. He keeps splitting up the reasons I accused him, when it's the whole record that makes my argument. So, until he realizes it's a big picture thing rather than individual acts of scummy, I have to restate my point.

The best way to refute an accusation with multiple parts is to address each part seperately. Surely you know this. You're attacking him for learning how to play the game, Mesden.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Among other misinterpretations.

Such as?

Originally Posted by Mesden

Hello? Bad situation. And it's his whole record that keeps repeating these kind of things. Not just this one situation, which is bad enough of its own accord.

It seems to me like you are crucifying him for random votes. Random votes are just that, random.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Also, no, there is no logic in just jumping your vote to the next easiest target. Especially one with a lot of focus instantly shifted on her and before she gets the slightest chance to talk about his(Newb's) post.

... I'm going to say this as kindly as possible. It's not all about you. If I found you scummy, I would vote for (or, more likely FoS) you without waiting for you to try to comment on whatever reason I found you scummy. See, I have a personal play style of letting people defend themselves before I vote for them, but only because I realize how much weight a vote carries. Skyshot, on the other hand, might not have that little bit of knowledge, and uses a vote. Now, I may be putting words in Skyshot's mouth here, and if I am, I kindly ask him to correct me and ask me to go back to my hole.

Originally Posted by Mesden

So yes, I believe that looking for the easiest vote, against someone that didn't even give their take on the situation at hand, is scummy.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't hold. For the reasons stated above. And it wasn't the "easiest vote" as you keep on saying it. It is the "person I think is most scummy at the moment" vote.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Um, hello! He had nothing to defend about yet! He wasn't in the spotlight like I was given the Newb Situation! Check Skyshot's admitted viewpoint to the Newb Situation!

He saw Newb do this whole charade and 'believed it'. IN believing it he sees that I had led the charge against him. This had to automatically put spotlight on me, as that's blatantly logical. Now then, I already HAD something to defend against: The Newb Situation. Before my post, Skyshot didn't have a single glance thrown his way.

You do have a point, although I'm not sure I like your condescending tone, but that is beside the point and will be overlooked for this post. Now, I'm gonna go through Skyshot's thought process here, using your own goddamn quotes.

Originally Posted by Mesden

He saw Newb do this whole charade and 'believed it'.

Newb=Town-aligned.

Originally Posted by Mesden

IN believing it he sees that I had led the charge against him.

Mesden is attacking a townie! She's likely scummy! Mesden=Scum-aligned. Following that logic, I will try to remove the scum, so logically, I will vote for Mesden.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Now then, I already HAD something to defend against: The Newb Situation. Before my post, Skyshot didn't have a single glance thrown his way.

We're not going to wait for you to throw your opinion on every little thing that goes on before reaching a conclusion. Of course Skyshot didn't have a single glance thrown his way; he's a new player who was being cautious. He wasn't being as hasty as you seem to think, now that I show you his thought process.

Originally Posted by Mesden

There's a difference in the accounts. You're construing and vaguing up what happens to make me look bad. Me no likey, but me can damn sure call you on it! =D

I agree with you here, there is a difference in the accounts. I was merely commenting on your voting for him right off the bat without you giving him an initial chance to defend himself. You are "construing and vaguing up" my comments "to make me look bad. Me no likey, but me can damn sure call you on it! =D"

Originally Posted by Mesden

Edit: Taking the time to say, after responding to not Skyshot, I need to get this off.

I hate dealing with your font, Skyshot! XD

Seconded.

EDIT: for spacing.

[Mesden]

Originally Posted by FenrisWolf

Kay, sorry I brought it up. I merely was looking through what was being said, and he summed up my opinion on this entire issue quite well. This is a circle, of you attacking and him defending and you attacking his defense because it "doesn't quite meet up to your expectations."

What? That's not even a quote! Stop twisting what I'm saying. He misinterpretted my argument, so I went on to try to give it to him in a clearer light, showing him how he missed my main point. He's defending against the wrong thing, normally. As my stacked on accusations have presented, he's actually starting to defend against, you called it, my main, overall, whole and complete reason that I am accusing him in the first place.

And, heck, you know what? I can completely take that nonquote and say it like this.

Yeah, if I don't think he's defending against my accusations well enough, then I DO think he's scummy. As of now, it's been working up (Thus the massive amount of posts) and it's been getting better as it went along.

No, it's quite acceptable. He's a new player, so he'll play like a new player.

Again, if you're going to give leeway to people just because they haven't played a game before, you're pratically giving them, should they be scum, an excuse to do as they please (albeit with some caution). If they can do that, then the possibility that they're scum won't register with you.

We can't all be you, Mesden.

Uncalled for.

And he learned. Moving on.

Again, you can't just shoo off every scummy action by calling them new. If you do, it's a "Be scum free!" card. I'm not giving Skyshot leeway for being new, if I did, we wouldn't be having this little spute right now.

The best way to refute an accusation with multiple parts is to address each part seperately. Surely you know this. You're attacking him for learning how to play the game, Mesden.

No, I'm stating a flaw in his counter to my argument. Individually, his posts and votes really aren't too bad. I just showed all his posts in there to give people a grasp of what I was saying.

He is an erratic voter. In the beginning, I believe he was capitalizing on the 'joking manner' of Day 1, which everyone does to some degree (Random Votes), but he was doing it far too much and dangerously escalating circumstances. Now, that's waveable, by itself.

That's the problem. Sure, if you look at all of his posts one by one, he only looks a little scummy at some points, but when you check his whole record and how hasty he was, he ends up looking scummy, atleast to me.

Such as?

Him and I about the Newb situation, which, if I'm not mistaken, we just got on the same page about. You know, after I 'constantly attacked him'.

Never liked the word 'attack'. Makes it seem too heinous.

It seems to me like you are crucifying him for random votes. Random votes are just that, random.

... I'm going to say this as kindly as possible. It's not all about you.

In a situation where the spotlight had indefinitely landed on me in a scummy manner, then yes, it is in some way about me.

Stop implying that I'm arrogant in this manner. I would be doing the same exact thing if someone else had led the charge against Newb and Skyshot did to them what he did to me.

If I were on about the fact that he DID vote for me then I guess what you're saying would have some point. But I'm on about the situation, not who of the situation.

If I found you scummy, I would vote for (or, more likely FoS) you without waiting for you to try to comment on whatever reason I found you scummy.

This is not the same situation. Skyshot found my scummy, in a situation where I had a lot to explain for already. And, again, this is just one aspect that leads to my overall point. I don't want to have to go through with this to ANOTHER person, seeing as I was relieved once Skyshot and I got on the same page, but you're making me do it.

Skyshot has been consistently quick to act with his vote and has done so with a 'joking' manner and impatience in a high tension situation on another player. I, myself, who are different from you as a person, find this to be scummy behavior, and therefore casted my vote against Skyshot to lay down some suspicion for him to answer for.

Rather than for someone else to answer for him, as you seem to be doing.

See, I have a personal play style of letting people defend themselves before I vote for them, but only because I realize how much weight a vote carries. Skyshot, on the other hand, might not have that little bit of knowledge, and uses a vote. Now, I may be putting words in Skyshot's mouth here, and if I am, I kindly ask him to correct me and ask me to go back to my hole.

I, in full honesty, can't just believe what you or he says he thinks. It's the most unproveable piece you can add to this puzzle. If I could honestly just believe that "Hey, Skyshot's new and he's just getting his bearings, which seems a little scummy along the way" then this wouldn't be such a big deal.

I have let the 'new' and 'ignorant' (No attack to you, Skyshot.) plea work before, twice. I accused someone and gave them this benefit of the doubt. Both times I was mistaken to take my accusations off of them because of their, should I say, inability for mafia.

So we're just looking at it from two different angles. You want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his newness, I don't.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't hold. For the reasons stated above. And it wasn't the "easiest vote" as you keep on saying it. It is the "person I think is most scummy at the moment" vote.

You do have a point, although I'm not sure I like your condescending tone, but that is beside the point and will be overlooked for this post. Now, I'm gonna go through Skyshot's thought process here, using your own goddamn quotes.

Please don't curse in this like that. You're degrading me and what I write with 'goddamn quotes'.

Newb=Town-aligned.
Mesden is attacking a townie! She's likely scummy! Mesden=Scum-aligned. Following that logic, I will try to remove the scum, so logically, I will vote for Mesden.

This...I can't even recognize this.

First: You aren't Skyshot. If Skyshot wants to agree with it, then I'll take it a bit more seriously, but...

Second: You are again taking the situation out of context and oversimplifying it.

Third: I hate messing with font =P.

We're not going to wait for you to throw your opinion on every little thing that goes on before reaching a conclusion.

No, but you could sure as heck let me get my word in on a situation that's instantly brought me into a scummy light, rather than cast votes so quickly.

IF you remember, I wasn't on at the time. I had work and sleep going on for me, so I couldn't respond so quickly. What if Sith hadn't of busted Newb, hm? (Because it was like this at the time Newb went through all of this.) If everyone thought in that process you just mentioned, I would be lynched right now before ever getting my say on things. The votes would've massively piled up on me for this thought process.

The same would go for anyone else who would've been in my situation, so don't go turning it around to make me seem like an arrogent victim. I'm not talking about me, but the situation I and Skyshot were involved in.

Of course Skyshot didn't have a single glance thrown his way; he's a new player who was being cautious. He wasn't being as hasty as you seem to think, now that I show you his thought process.

You showed my process in an oversimplified light to ONE SITUATION. I am talking about Skyshot's performance AS A WHOLE. He has done little if anything to ever be cautious with his vote.

I agree with you here, there is a difference in the accounts.

Fine, fine.

I was merely commenting on your voting for him right off the bat without you giving him an initial chance to defend himself.

Against what? Name it for me. He had nothing to defend against before me. When he voted for me, I already had a lot to explain for. Tell me exactly how what you're saying makes any sense.

Please, I'd like to know. Skyshot had no eyes turned on him before my massive accusation. I voted for him with this massive accusation to get eyes turned on him. When he voted for me, there were already eyes turned on me.

You are "construing and vaguing up" my comments "to make me look bad. Me no likey, but me can damn sure call you on it! =D"

Name exactly one point at which I construed and made vague of what you said.

Go on, I'm waiting.

Fenris: As far as I can tell, you're doing little more than trying to run a smeer campaign against me and defend Skyshot. While the last part is noble enough, you are not Skyshot and can not give perfectly accurate detail of what he's done through his own thought processes.

[Skyshot]

Actually, his description of my thought processes is fairly accurate. I mean, I think I even said that basic thing already.

No, I'm stating a flaw in his counter to my argument. Individually, his posts and votes really aren't too bad. I just showed all his posts in there to give people a grasp of what I was saying.

He is an erratic voter. In the beginning, I believe he was capitalizing on the 'joking manner' of Day 1, which everyone does to some degree (Random Votes), but he was doing it far too much and dangerously escalating circumstances. Now, that's waveable, by itself.

That's the problem. Sure, if you look at all of his posts one by one, he only looks a little scummy at some points, but when you check his whole record and how hasty he was, he ends up looking scummy, atleast to me.

I said this before, and I'll say it again. I'm taking them on individually because there's nothing to address as a whole. That's it. That's all I can say. It's my grand "Nuh uh!" against your claim that I'm too hasty and erratic. I can't prove this negative. It's logically impossible. All I can do is explain them individually and hope people see that's all there was to them.

Again, you can't just shoo off every scummy action by calling them new. If you do, it's a "Be scum free!" card. I'm not giving Skyshot leeway for being new, if I did, we wouldn't be having this little spute right now.

Again, if you're going to give leeway to people just because they haven't played a game before, you're pratically giving them, should they be scum, an excuse to do as they please (albeit with some caution). If they can do that, then the possibility that they're scum won't register with you.

Honestly, this in itself is starting to look a little suspicious to me. What am I, guilty until proven innocent? What if the new person in question isn't scum? How does that change things? I'm almost tempted to pull the Occam's Razor argument on you.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Mesden

What? That's not even a quote!

Nor was it meant to be. It's my interperetation about what you're doing. Moving on.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Stop twisting what I'm saying. He misinterpretted my argument, so I went on to try to give it to him in a clearer light, showing him how he missed my main point. He's defending against the wrong thing, normally. As my stacked on accusations have presented, he's actually starting to defend against, you called it, my main, overall, whole and complete reason that I am accusing him in the first place.

And when he tried to ask you what you wanted him to defend against, you ignored him. He asked here.

Originally Posted by Mesden

And, heck, you know what? I can completely take that nonquote and say it like this.

Yeah, if I don't think he's defending against my accusations well enough, then I DO think he's scummy. As of now, it's been working up (Thus the massive amount of posts) and it's been getting better as it went along.

Well, yeah. I agree here wholeheartedly. All I remember and the main reason I don't like that tactic is when, in Goodfella's Mafia, Newb pulled some of the same stuff.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Again, if you're going to give leeway to people just because they haven't played a game before, you're pratically giving them, should they be scum, an excuse to do as they please (albeit with some caution). If they can do that, then the possibility that they're scum won't register with you.

Nope. Wrong again. I'm giving him a day or two to learn how the game operates. Don't think me of being an idiot.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Uncalled for.

Actually, I was commenting on your extremely well done performance during your first game.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Again, you can't just shoo off every scummy action by calling them new. If you do, it's a "Be scum free!" card. I'm not giving Skyshot leeway for being new, if I did, we wouldn't be having this little spute right now.

No, it's not a "Be scum free!" card. It's a "take a little time to learn how to play the game!" card. I, for one, am in the interest of keeping these games alive, and if you scare new players off by killing them as soon as they do something you don't like, then these games won't exactly last very long on these forums, now will they?

Originally Posted by Mesden

No, I'm stating a flaw in his counter to my argument. Individually, his posts and votes really aren't too bad. I just showed all his posts in there to give people a grasp of what I was saying.

What flaw? He's doing it correctly, by dividing the points of your argument into individual points and answering each one in full. The only possible way to refute what you want him to refute is to say "Everything you just said is wrong. Nyeah."

Originally Posted by Mesden

He is an erratic voter. In the beginning, I believe he was capitalizing on the 'joking manner' of Day 1, which everyone does to some degree (Random Votes), but he was doing it far too much and dangerously escalating circumstances. Now, that's waveable, by itself.

Yes, yes it is.

Originally Posted by Mesden

That's the problem. Sure, if you look at all of his posts one by one, he only looks a little scummy at some points, but when you check his whole record and how hasty he was, he ends up looking scummy, atleast to me.

What's the problem? You basically went from saying that something can be looked over, due to day 1 randovoting, but then you went to saying it's a problem. Which one is it?

Originally Posted by Mesden

Him and I about the Newb situation, which, if I'm not mistaken, we just got on the same page about. You know, after I 'constantly attacked him'.

Never liked the word 'attack'. Makes it seem too heinous.

Yeah, but I can't think of another word for it. And no, you still hadn't replied to his post, unless I missed it, which is fully possible.

Originally Posted by Mesden and FenrisWolf

It seems to me like you are crucifying him for random votes. Random votes are just that, random.

You never did reply to this, but it was in your post. =/

Originally Posted by Mesden

In a situation where the spotlight had indefinitely landed on me in a scummy manner, then yes, it is in some way about me.

Yeah, you always say that.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Stop implying that I'm arrogant in this manner. I would be doing the same exact thing if someone else had led the charge against Newb and Skyshot did to them what he did to me.

That was actually going to be my next point. Well done. Anyway, I'm not calling you arrogant, I was confused, but your next point cleared that up.

Originally Posted by Mesden

If I were on about the fact that he DID vote for me then I guess what you're saying would have some point. But I'm on about the situation, not who of the situation.

Le sigh. The situation isn't bad. Okay? I showed you what I think his thought process was, based on what he said. Stop ignoring it, okay?

Originally Posted by Mesden

This is not the same situation. Skyshot found my scummy, in a situation where I had a lot to explain for already. And, again, this is just one aspect that leads to my overall point. I don't want to have to go through with this to ANOTHER person, seeing as I was relieved once Skyshot and I got on the same page, but you're making me do it.

It doesn't matter, okay? This is not a perfect world, and waiting for who he thinks is scum to come in and defend themseleves is a rather dumb idea, anyway. When you are sure somebody is scum, as he was at that point in time, you do not sit and twiddle your thumbs. You start tying the knots for the noose, or at least aim the suspicion at who you think is scum.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Skyshot has been consistently quick to act with his vote and has done so with a 'joking' manner and impatience in a high tension situation on another player. I, myself, who are different from you as a person, find this to be scummy behavior, and therefore casted my vote against Skyshot to lay down some suspicion for him to answer for.

...

Day 1 Random Voting.
Him thinking Newb was scum, then you were scum, then he was scum.

I still don't see your problem with this. He hasn't been anywhere near as hasty as you try to make him out to be.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Rather than for someone else to answer for him, as you seem to be doing.

This is the thing I hate the most about your strategy. You may be capable of fully defending yourself and manipulating everything to your advantage, etc., etc., but not everybody is as capable as you are, Mesden. Stop trying to remove the opposition just because you think they are your opposition at that point in time. Notice how I haven't voted for you? Yeah, I'm not against you, I'm just against Skyshot dying at this time.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Mesden

I, in full honesty, can't just believe what you or he says he thinks. It's the most unproveable piece you can add to this puzzle. If I could honestly just believe that "Hey, Skyshot's new and he's just getting his bearings, which seems a little scummy along the way" then this wouldn't be such a big deal.

And therein lies the problem. Again, you look for anything that could possibly be construed as even remotely scummy and latch on to it and blow it up into a massive blob of evidence. Skyshot hasn't done anything that looks half as scummy as you make it out to be.

Originally Posted by Mesden

I have let the 'new' and 'ignorant' (No attack to you, Skyshot.) plea work before, twice. I accused someone and gave them this benefit of the doubt. Both times I was mistaken to take my accusations off of them because of their, should I say, inability for mafia.

Again, see above point. He's getting his bearings straight, as you put it. Some things work, some things get you killed. He's still trying to figure out which is which. (Note: I know that sounds bad, but I really can't think of any other way to put it right now.)

Originally Posted by Mesden

So we're just looking at it from two different angles. You want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his newness, I don't.

Yep, moving on.

Originally Posted by Mesden and FenrisWolf

I'm sorry, but that doesn't hold. For the reasons stated above. And it wasn't the "easiest vote" as you keep on saying it. It is the "person I think is most scummy at the moment" vote.

Thank you for not acknowledging everything I say again. =D

Originally Posted by Mesden

Please don't curse in this like that. You're degrading me and what I write with 'goddamn quotes'.

...No. I'll type how I damn well please. If anything, it says more about me than you. I just was amused by how you answered your own point in your paragraph of accusation.

Originally Posted by Mesden

This...I can't even recognize this.

As I thought you wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Mesden

First: You aren't Skyshot. If Skyshot wants to agree with it, then I'll take it a bit more seriously, but...

Which is why I said:

Originally Posted by FenrisWolf

Now, I may be putting words in Skyshot's mouth here, and if I am, I kindly ask him to correct me and ask me to go back to my hole.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Second: You are again taking the situation out of context and oversimplifying it.

No, no I'm not. It is exactly in context of what he was thinking at the point in time, which was my entire point. And yes, yes I am oversimplifying it so my point could not be confused for anything different. But, I guess I was wrong there.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Third: I hate messing with font =P.

Yeah, I know. Me too. I just threw it in there to show it was Skyshot's thoughts. It was a little gimmick I thought of and ran with.

Originally Posted by Mesden

No, but you could sure as heck let me get my word in on a situation that's instantly brought me into a scummy light, rather than cast votes so quickly.

We could have, but he didn't. He voted rather than FoSed, which he really should have done. He knows that now and all is good.

Originally Posted by Mesden

IF you remember, I wasn't on at the time. I had work and sleep going on for me, so I couldn't respond so quickly. What if Sith hadn't of busted Newb, hm? (Because it was like this at the time Newb went through all of this.) If everyone thought in that process you just mentioned, I would be lynched right now before ever getting my say on things. The votes would've massively piled up on me for this thought process.

First off, we don't know that, due to your invisible status. Second off, I wouldn't have voted for you anyway because I knew Newb was full of shit. Third off, if I remember right, I nearly died in that fashion in your game, but SK came and saved the day. You don't know that somebody could have come in and called Newb on his bullshit anyway, much like Skyshot did, if I remember right.

Originally Posted by Mesden

The same would go for anyone else who would've been in my situation, so don't go turning it around to make me seem like an arrogent victim. I'm not talking about me, but the situation I and Skyshot were involved in.

Okay. You already said that, I already answered it.

Originally Posted by Mesden

You showed my process in an oversimplified light to ONE SITUATION. I am talking about Skyshot's performance AS A WHOLE. He has done little if anything to ever be cautious with his vote.

By voting for who he thinks is scum? How the hell is that not cautious? He's trying to play it safe, not play it dumb.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Against what? Name it for me. He had nothing to defend against before me. When he voted for me, I already had a lot to explain for. Tell me exactly how what you're saying makes any sense.

For the love of little green apples... Lemme restate my points again. You voted immediately. FoS, not vote. Okay? Can you understand me? Can you hear me now? Good![/Verizonguy]

Originally Posted by Mesden

Please, I'd like to know. Skyshot had no eyes turned on him before my massive accusation. I voted for him with this massive accusation to get eyes turned on him. When he voted for me, there were already eyes turned on me.

I point you to this: Linky.

Sure, it was a mafia scheme, but it is still the same desired effect. I turned eyes onto catlover without voting. Simple!

Originally Posted by Mesden

Name exactly one point at which I construed and made vague of what you said.

Go on, I'm waiting.

'Kay! I'll even do double of what you asked, but I'll only use points from this post.

Here:

Originally Posted by Mesden

What? That's not even a quote!

Here:

Originally Posted by Mesden

Please don't curse in this like that. You're degrading me and what I write with 'goddamn quotes'.

Originally Posted by Mesden

Fenris: As far as I can tell, you're doing little more than trying to run a smeer campaign against me and defend Skyshot. While the last part is noble enough, you are not Skyshot and can not give perfectly accurate detail of what he's done through his own thought processes.

I am certainly not running a smear campaign on you. I am protecting Skyshot from the smear campaign you are running against him. And, it appears he has replied since I started writing this post (I got a little e-mail telling me there's a new post), and so, apparently, I can state his thought processes. And no, I'm not Skyshot. I couldn't stand to use that font. =P

[Cephrir]

Wow. I don't like reading long posts, but I did, mostly.

The Mesden/Fenris/Skyshot debates, cliffs notes version:
A) Mesden thinks Skyshot is scummy for over-random-voting and for apparent association with Newb.
B) Mesden proceeds with arguments that generally make sense, but are sometimes confusing.
C) Skyshot defends himself.
D) Mesden is not satisfied.
E) Fenris defends Skyshot.
F) Mesden and Fenris argue over Skyshot.
G) I am confused.

Did I miss anyhing? I just want to make sure I have a general idea of what's going on, due to point G.

If I'm not, then I think all three of you are town. I'm not sure, though. If I change my mind, the dreaded PoS(es) will follow.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Cephrir

Wow. I don't like reading long posts, but I did, mostly.

The Mesden/Fenris/Skyshot debates, cliffs notes version:
A) Mesden thinks Skyshot is scummy for over-random-voting and for apparent association with Newb.
B) Mesden proceeds with arguments that generally make sense, but are sometimes confusing.
C) Skyshot defends himself.
D) Mesden is not satisfied.
E) Fenris defends Skyshot.
F) Mesden and Fenris argue over Skyshot.
G) I am confused.

Did I miss anyhing? I just want to make sure I have a general idea of what's going on, due to point G.

If I'm not, then I think all three of you are town. I'm not sure, though. If I change my mind, the dreaded PoS(es) will follow.

PoS? No! NOT THAT BASTARD!

Yeah, you're pretty much on the ball.