The Unpopular Opinions

[Marc v4.0]

Generally when you see a nest of anything hive-centric/communial you are already knee-deep in the thing nesting at that point. Nests sit at the relative center of the territory, or bordered by obstructions.

Look at fire ants. The real ones. One mound of those things can have a working territory of anywhere from 10-20 feet depending upon the food source and rival populations.

Do you know how far 10 feet is for a thing the size of an ant? I would have to own my neighborhood, and that might not be big enough to scale.





This is what we are talking about, this area contains all the Deathclaw spawn markers in question, easily avoidable. I was even generous on the size of it given they never spawn that close to the Hunter's Farm, they can just wander that far south chasing geckos and raiders. Some of that territory is invisible-wall blocked hills, too.

[BloodyMage]

Originally Posted by Karesh

Honestly, why is this a problem? What would even be the point of leveling, gaining gear and experience throughout a game if you could just waltz wherever you like at level 1 and do exactly as well as a level 35?
Seriously. Tell me.
If I have a level 35 who's been through Old World Blues and has 40,000 caps and all the best guns and equipment and maxed out skills and I go to that quarry and have exactly as much trouble as a guy fresh outta Goodsprings, what was the point? Why should I have ever bothered with any of it? I should have just walked right up to the Fort, smacked Caesar in the face with a baseball bat and then done the battle for Hoover Dam with a 10mm and the Vault Jumpsuit.

That's kind of missing the point. I'm not saying that things shouldn't get easier/be scaled to my experience and weapons, but as a level 1 character (or relatively low) I intentionally avoided the deathclaws because I knew I probably didn't have the experience or weapons as a character to deal with them and moved away from them. I'd have done the same thing in Fallout 3 as a level 1 character to avoid Old Olney. It felt like the designers of New Vegas weren't just using them to challenge me as a player though, but to actually keep me playing through the story how they wanted.

Originally Posted by Karesh

The thing is if the Lions (Deathclaws) are nested in that area, that means their prey is not going to be there anymore, having already been eaten or run off.
If the Lions (Deathclaws) stay in the cave all the live long day and go out only for the occasional stroll through the Mojave alone they're going to starve to death.

Except they won't starve because they prey on people, who are pretty abundant in Sloan. There weren't even any humans where I was though, and you'd have to double back to get to Sloan, so I don't know why they'd be there if they were hunting. Not to mention, the game doesn't even work like that. Real living breathing animals such as Lions might, but the deathclaws aren't programmed like that. It's entirely possible to find a high position and just spy on them as I did later in the game.

Originally Posted by Karesh

I'd say you weren't, since...well, you didn't get through, right?

For Radscorpions? Sure. For Death claws? Nope. Giant Radscoprians have a higher DT but lower health, but they're also slower and more predictable. Although the wiki says they have no discernable tactics, I've often found them to rush a head, stopping slightly to prepare the stinger, as which point you can rush to the side and keep attacking. Granted it's easier with better weapons, but it's more easily done than Death claws who are much faster, more agile and have pretty much zero time between when they rush ahead and their claw swipe.

Originally Posted by Karesh

But again just because the Deathclaws are in the quarry, just because most of them stay there, doesn't really even come close to implying that they're all there.

In such a close area, I'd expect it to just be labelled as a deathclaw hunting area, rather than simply mentioning the quarry as a nest. It sort of just felt like an ambush.

Originally Posted by Karesh

What are you playing it for then? Do you want a mod that removes all the enemies so you can wander around freely? Or would you rather be playing a hunting game, where you can shoot helpless animals? It really seems like RPGs and Fallout in particular just aren't for you if you want to be able to do everything and anything from the getgo without putting something into it.

Fun? I enjoy roleplaying games, and I enjoy Fallout. I'm saying I preferred New Vegas over Fallout 3 because it felt like the game wanted me to do one thing and wasn't really prepared to give me the option. The options were 'fairly straigtforward' or 'extremely difficult'. Even if the north path is doable, no one would call it easy, and those are some pretty diverse extremes.

It was strikingly similar to how Final Fantasy 13 placed you on a linear path before it really opened up the world to you. That's not a great comparison because they're rather different games with different mechanics, but I simply mean that, for a roleplaying sand box game, it felt like there was a remarkable lack of options from the get go.

Originally Posted by Karesh

edit: At that: would you have felt any better about it had a pack of Cazadors been fluttering around?
Would it just being anything other than a Death claw had made it any better?

Pretty much, yeah. I've already explained above that I can deal with giant radscorpions. Cazadores are somewhere in between for me. Their sting seems more effective than the radscorpion, come in larger packs most of the time and they're still faster, but they have zero DT and it's fairly easy to cripple their wings. Either way, yeah, they'd have been better than deathclaws.

[Marc v4.0]

I figured it was generally assumed when you heard a place had a nest of something nasty, you avoided that place as much as possible.

Unless you think bees are only found and dangerous if you stick your head in the hive.

[BloodyMage]

I don't expect to be told there's a beehive in my garden and then find a swarm in my room.

I think it's fair to say, I have the most unpopular opinion...

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by BloodyMage

Pretty much, yeah. I've already explained above that I can deal with giant radscorpions. Cazadores are somewhere in between for me. Their sting seems more effective than the radscorpion, come in larger packs most of the time and they're still faster, but they have zero DT and it's fairly easy to cripple their wings. Either way, yeah, they'd have been better than deathclaws.

Now I know you tried, but if it was just the Death Claws you had a problem with why didn't you just go back and go the other way around them?

Take a look at the map Marc posted. There's a road straight up there that's well beyond their area.

At that it sounds like you were fighting them wrong. Short of the best of the best you can't toe to toe a Death Claw and survive long. You either take them out at a distance, punch them to death before they can strike or get somewhere they can't reach.
Stick to the cliff face along the wall and you'll find places you can jump along that they just plain can't get up.

[BitVyper]

Originally Posted by BloodyMage

I don't expect to be told there's a beehive in my garden and then find a swarm in my room.

I think it's fair to say, I have the most unpopular opinion...

Eh, it kind of annoyed me too. Mainly 'cause the Deathclaws weren't just really really tough, but pretty much flat out impossible. Although I'm sure someone will tell me how they broke that area.

It should have been more possible to improvise a solution at low levels there. Having the Deathclaws form a solid wall was irritating.

[BloodyMage]

Originally Posted by Karesh

Now I know you tried, but if it was just the Death Claws you had a problem with why didn't you just go back and go the other way around them?

Take a look at the map Marc posted. There's a road straight up there that's well beyond their area.

At that it sounds like you were fighting them wrong. Short of the best of the best you can't toe to toe a Death Claw and survive long. You either take them out at a distance, punch them to death before they can strike or get somewhere they can't reach.
Stick to the cliff face along the wall and you'll find places you can jump along that they just plain can't get up.

Originally Posted by BloodyMage

Maybe it was Northwest. It's been a while and I'm bad with directions anyway. What I do know is that the quarry was on one side, and I made a point to head in a northward manner in the opposite direction. I did meet the cazadors that you mentioned, but just beyond that there was a little bit that was more open. I was high ground at the time, and sneaking so they didn't immediately notice me, but there were at least two or three prowling around. I think I toppled one with a mixture of rifle fire and grenades. I decided it would be better to just run for it. Another two appeared after those two. Didn't seem like a random encounter, but there's definitely deathclaws in that area.

Basically, I was staying on high ground but this being early in the game, I didn't have nearly enough weapons and ammunition to take care of all three, and bolted for it, but ran into another two.

When I reloaded, I did just said 'screw it' and went on to primm, since I'd only really been exploring at the time anyway. As I said, it just sort of hurt my overall experience that I ran into them at such an early stage. I came back later with a sniper rifle and took care of them, and the ones in the quarry, but it was irritating that it felt like the game for forcing me to continue with the story before I could fully explore the wasteland.

[Marc v4.0]

It is unfortunate you felt it was forcing you, and even more so your refusal to listen that it wasn't because alternate paths existed in the same direction. It wasn't keeping you from getting through to Vegas through the north path, it was keeping you from going around the area the Quarry is at.

To explain from the FO3 vantage, it is like complaining you can't get to the Republic of Dave because OO is in the path, and then ignoring everyone saying you can just as easily go around OO, just mind the mirelurks and bears.

[BloodyMage]

Originally Posted by Marc v1.0

To explain from the FO3 vantage, it is like complaining you can't get to the Republic of Dave because OO is in the path, and then ignoring everyone saying you can just as easily go around OO, just mind the mirelurks and bears.

Originally Posted by BloodyMage

Which is pretty much a symptom of a larger problem. As I've said before, it felt like the game was telling me to go back, and follow the pre-set path of Goodsprings - Primm - Nipton - Novac. From there it opens up, but that's not really a good role playing game. I should have the freedom to go where where I want in a roleplaying sand box game, which is why I prefer Fallout 3. After you left the vault you were encouraged to go to Megaton but the game never really tried to stop you if you felt inclined to walk all the way to the Republic of Dave. You were specifically told there were Death Claws at Old Olney which you could avoid without any trouble at all. I'm not saying it's too hard, I'm saying it was intentionally harder than it should have been just to force you, the player, on to the path the game designers wanted you on. That's what made it less enjoyable for me.

If I relate in terms of the map you made, it's as if I drew a large circle around Old Olney. Except that's not necessary. From a fair distance you can see the death claws prowling along the outer edge of the town, but so long as you stay clear of the town itself you won't come across any in the immediate surrounding area.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by BloodyMage

If I relate in terms of the map you made, it's as if I drew a large circle around Old Olney. Except that's not necessary. From a fair distance you can see the death claws prowling along the outer edge of the town, but so long as you stay clear of the town itself you won't come across any in the immediate surrounding area.

Yes you will.

I've fought lots of Deathclaws roaming past Old Olney because they happened to chase something out of town or whatever other silly AI reason. Died a couple times to them as well.