Ever Think The Villain Is Right?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Really? 'cause I'm pretty sure even in the original trilogy the rebels comment on the old republic.

There's also the rampant racism, the slavery, the genocide, and the religious oppression. Which the rebels were all very much against, so one has a pretty good look at their policies--or at least the ones that conflicted with the empire.

And, again, touching on all the mass murder and whatnot--how can you call a government that kills and/or enslaves it's own people harmonious?

Seriously, the Empire may have been stable, but they made the nazi party look like flowers, rainbows, and sunshine. With glitter.

I should clarify I'm only referring to the movies not the novels cause really, how many people have actually read them? All of the Empire bad stuff happens in the novels and isn't really referred to in the movies.

They wre instituitionally racist but as far as I remember there was no real mention in the movies. Just they all happened to be humans.

The only mentions of slavery I remember were in Jabba's palace and on Tatoine which had nothing to do with the empire.

Genocide? In the movies this can only really refer to Alderaan. They were fighting a war. The rebels had no problem blowing up a Death Star orbiting Endor which could easily rain death on the planet below.

And the rebels never said "Let's blow up the empire because they are racists and enslave and genocide people" They were all like "Let's defeat the empire because they are bad"

You really need the extended universe to make any case as to why the empire are really that bad because from the movies you don't really get it.
The only really questionable act that we are shown and not referred to in cryptic statements is the explosion of Alderaan.

[Captain Combustible]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

Genocide? In the movies this can only really refer to Alderaan. They were fighting a war. The rebels had no problem blowing up a Death Star orbiting Endor which could easily rain death on the planet below.

Well they controlled Alderaan didn't they? You can call it a war all you want, but it's not like the rebels even controlled planet. Murdering an entire population of a planet you control makes it very clear you're evil, I mean how many more signs do you need?

[Amake]

In one word, Mr. Nobody in Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol.

He's a dadaist terrorist who tries to liberate the world from the constraints of reason. He kidnaps Paris, turns a cop into a porcelain toilet and runs for president of the United States in a pirate schoolbus that showers cities in metaphysical hallucinogenic drugs. All the while talking and talking and talking and making some pretty interesting points about the world and what it could be. Then he gets killed by a government agent who gives him an identity. I doubt anyone could read it and not feel sad.

Then this:

[Seil]

How come mosta my threads in General end up discussion based?

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Seil

How come mosta my threads in General end up discussion based?

Maybe it's because you post any random thing that comes to mind. :p

No, seriously. You usually leave a ton of space open that way for intelligent discussion. Especially because it's usually a question. XD

[Doc ock rokc]

OK here is how i feel on this I feel that the villain should be right in some parts but the method is wrong...For instance the best villain ever was Ozymandias where he was Doing the right thing the wrong way. all he wanted was for mankind to be at peace...so that the cold war would end so that there would be no need for weapons...a beautiful endeavor that many people to this day strive for...But to to this he created a biological nightmare and made it kill half of Manhattan in order to scare the living shit out of The US and USSR so that they would team up against aliens...It was the most nobal act of mass murder ever to be in literature if you consider comics literature....I feel that all villains should be this way...

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

I should clarify I'm only referring to the movies not the novels cause really, how many people have actually read them? All of the Empire bad stuff happens in the novels and isn't really referred to in the movies.

They wre instituitionally racist but as far as I remember there was no real mention in the movies. Just they all happened to be humans.

The only mentions of slavery I remember were in Jabba's palace and on Tatoine which had nothing to do with the empire.

Genocide? In the movies this can only really refer to Alderaan. They were fighting a war. The rebels had no problem blowing up a Death Star orbiting Endor which could easily rain death on the planet below.

And the rebels never said "Let's blow up the empire because they are racists and enslave and genocide people" They were all like "Let's defeat the empire because they are bad"

You really need the extended universe to make any case as to why the empire are really that bad because from the movies you don't really get it.
The only really questionable act that we are shown and not referred to in cryptic statements is the explosion of Alderaan.

I'm actually pretty certain that the Wookies, at least, are discussed, and how Han and Chewie fell in having to do with Han saving his life from the Empire.

I mean, sure, no one says, "Hey, the Empire is Nazi Germany in space plus evil wizards!" but it's all pretty clearly there, right in the movies, if you pay any kind of attention at all.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Originally Posted by Captain Combustible

Well they controlled Alderaan didn't they? You can call it a war all you want, but it's not like the rebels even controlled planet. Murdering an entire population of a planet you control makes it very clear you're evil, I mean how many more signs do you need?

Their princess was a rebel leader. That's a pretty good sign a planet is up to no good. If the Queen of England declared war on your country you'd be pretty suspicious of England too.
And the ewoks were helping out the rebellion. Nobody cared what would happen to them when they blew up a space station the size of a moon above them. They could at least have mentioned it.
I mean sure the Empire wasn't perfect but I never saw any real reason to support the rebels either.

[Seil]

So I'm guessing that the emperor is Hitler, Vader is... Himmler?

[Captain Combustible]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

Their princess was a rebel leader. That's a pretty good sign a planet is up to no good. If the Queen of England declared war on your country you'd be pretty suspicious of England too.

So in using your England example, let's say you're the leader of an empire spanning all of Europe and beyond. In England you let the Royal Family continue to have a role administrating the country; eventually, under your rule a rebellion movement grows and you find that the Princess of the royal family is aiding rebels, what would you do:

A. Depose the royal family, install new governors to run the country.
B. Literally Bomb England to oblivion, leaving the country unusable and every person in England dead.

Killing everyone is just going out of the way to be evil since your destroying your own resources.

Originally Posted by Grand Moff Tarkin

You're far too trusting. Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration, but don't worry. We will deal with your rebel friends soon enough.

This hardly makes it sound like he's doing it because he think Alderaan is a significant threat to the empire.