Mafia: Bleach

[Ole' Dude With the Face]

Well, I've personally been of the mind that I was attacked by both the mafia and the Vig last night due to Mesden's... little revelation about me having a role.

Originally Posted by Arhra

Hmm, I find this eerily reminiscent of the SoL mafia game. Fortunately, I can once again truthfully state that I am town aligned and that there are bad consequences for lynching or killing me.

Now I'm not too sure about the particular rules of this game, but last I checked, revealing or even speaking of secret roles like this was a big no no. So could I get a bit of validation about this from someone? Because if this is still against the rules I find it to be ultimately scummy. Even if it isn't against the rules, I still believe it to be scum-worthy. As such, I will not remove my vote from where it is.

[P-Sleazy]

I don't think that neccessarily breaks the rules. He could be alluding to one of the non-secret town roles we have like the Vigilante, PO, or BG. Having any of those lynched could also pose bad repercussions upon the town. Especially now that everyone knows it, He's a likely target for the Mafia AND cult tonight, if not also the Vigilante and PO who may not beleive him.

Edit: added the PO in last sentence after Vigilante

[Ole' Dude With the Face]

That is a good point, b_real_shadows. I suppose I just remembered the SoL Mafia too much when he referred to it and automatically attributed him to having a secret role, which he did have then.

As such I will now,

Unvote: Arhra

Though, I'm still keeping an eye on him.

Edit: Added in part in italics.

[Demonlink2]

Originally Posted by B_Real

I don't think that neccessarily breaks the rules. He could be alluding to one of the non-secret town roles we have like the Vigilante, PO, or BG. Having any of those lynched could also pose bad repercussions upon the town. Especially now that everyone knows it, He's a likely target for the Mafia AND cult tonight, if not also the Vigilante and PO who may not beleive him.

Arhra and Newb seemed the most suspicious, and stupid "Secret role" threats are so last game (See: chat8bit:Mafia and The gentleman theif). But, because Newb can't make threats, and he's our only suspicious person,
Unvote: Arhra
Vote: Teh Newb

Edit:Forgot to unvote.

[Elbodo]

Well for starters I think at this point I need to UNVOTE: Arhra. His explanation of things has satisfied me.

Now then. The whole business with Fenris's death had me confused for a bit. First I thought the Mafia and Vig had both targeted Fenris, then I thought they had both targeted Ole' Dude. But, if I am finally understanding this, the Mafia targeted Fenris but couldn't kill him because he was being Ole' Dude and the Vig targeted Ole' Dude buy got Fenris by mistake.

So, I am of a mind to look back at yesterday's posts to see who had a motivation to target Fenris. The two who seemed to be really going round and round with him were Cephrir and Ryanderman, as Major Blood pointed out immediately after SK's night post.

Curiously, that suspicion was immediately answered by Ryanderman:

Originally posted by [B]Ryanderman[/bold]:
I think, what happened is the Mafia wanted Ole' Dude with the Face, but Fenris protected him by tricking the Mafia into thinking he was Ole' Dude.

Unfortunately, the Mafia wanted Ole' Dude with the Face dead because he had Mesden's role, and not because of anything he did or said here, since he hasn't done or said anything. It doesn't help us much.

EDIT: I totally missed the second part of SK's post, about the vig. The vig killed Fenris, not Mafia? Does it still mean that the vig was going after Ole' Dude as well? Could Fenris be targeted as himself while imitating someone else?

The first time I read this I thought Ryanderman was suffering the same confusion I was. But in light of this:

Originally posted by Ryanderman:
The Mafia definitely targeted Ole dude.

And this:

Originally posted by Ryanderman:
Don't see what's so hard about this. Both the Mafia and the Vig targeted Ole Dude. Since Fenris was imitating him, he took the hit from both. In my previous post, I quoted Fenris as saying that he could not be targeted as himself when imitating someone else, meaning that if the mafia had targeted him, they wouldn't have factored in this way into the story, as they wouldn't have been able to find him.

It looks more like the purpose of that first quote was to make us think the Mafia had targeted Ole' Dude and that the night post contained no useful information for us -- and that we should therefore ignore its implications and look elsewhere for our leads. The edit, added six minutes after the original post, smells to me like somebody trying to cover their own mafiate slip.
Ryanderman retracts his assertion that the Mafia targeted Ole' Dude only after both Roy and the Ghost of Fenris Past correct him:

Originally posted by Ryanderman:
Really? Huh, I and I was so sure the death story had some relavence and ruled that out. My mistake, I withdraw all objections to Roy's theory.

EDIT: ok, I guess the death story could also be read the way it happened. I just read it incorrectly.

The ruse almost worked, too. We've all been running around with superficial suspicions about Arhra and Newb and completely overlooked the fact that that somebody ACTUALLY wanted Fenris dead.

So I feel I must VOTE: Ryanderman

[Roy_D_Mylote]

Y'know, I had forgotten that Ryanderman was goin' after Fenris back then. So yeah, thanks for pointing that out, and Vote: Ryanderman

[Cephrir]

I must say, Elbodo, that has got to be some of the most solid evidence we've seen thus far. He actually had a motive for targeting Fenris. Although you didn't state it specifically, there is definitely some kind of FoS in there at me. Now, my arguments with Fenris weren't exactly 'I think we should lynch you'. In fact, we didn't vote each other, and I never FoS-ed him, and I don't think he FoS-ed me. I know I, at least, wasn't exactly suspicious of him or anywhere near accusing him. Anyway, I'm going to keep my vote for the time being, but
Extreme FoS: Ryanderman
Edit: I'll probably change it to a vote later, but I'm waiting for his defense.

[Ryanderman]

My only defense is that everything I said is exactly as it seemed. I completely misinterpreted the death post for Fenris, and wanted to point out what I thought was a mistake on Roy's part. It wasn't till Fenris himself said he was targeted by the mafia that I got it.

So, I am of a mind to look back at yesterday's posts to see who had a motivation to target Fenris. The two who seemed to be really going round and round with him were Cephrir and Ryanderman, as Major Blood pointed out immediately after SK's night post.

I have no idea where you're getting this going after Fenris from. My sum total interaction with Fenris in this Mafia has been:
Page 2:

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

I'm definitely not going to throw out a random vote.

Just as a bit of observation: 19 of us are playing both major Mafia games. Is this usual?

Originally Posted by Fenris

Yes, yes it is, Ryanderman.

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

Huh, shows what I know.

And then later on page 22:

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

Playing Devil's advocate, what would be the point for a scum to bandwagon a guy who is already almost certain to die by 4? (Am I right in believe that a majority vote at the deadline gets lynched even if the required number hasn't been reached? If not then just discount what I'm saying.) He would needlessly cast suspicion on himself.

There have been reasons given for why fauckneruap should be lynched. They aren't the most solid reasons, but I think it would be more likely that Bookworm saw some merit in those reasons and voted because of them.

Originally Posted by Fenris

Indeed you are.

In response to Cephrir on page 22:

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

One response does not an attention shift make. Especially with your subtle shift back while simultaneously casting a shadow on Garud. Very well done.

The reasons given for lynching fauckenruap have been shaky at best, which is why I'm not voting for him, but they are there

Originally Posted by Fenris

Can I just point one little thing out here?

This game is about the manipulation of perception, surely you all know this. Mafiates try to mess with people's minds to get them to kill non-mafiates (unless they're like me, and then they sacrifice somebody to make the other mafia look good), townies try to manipulate the perception to make them look unscummy, etc.

Pointing out subtlety when you are congratulating them for it is a bad idea.

'Cause then people realize they've been manipulated for something that you thought was good and all.

I'd explain better, but I am really fuggin' tired right now.

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

I'm sorry, I should have added [sarcasm] tags to my last post.

I was trying to point out that he just used manipulation

Originally Posted by Ryanderman to GARUD

Cephrir pointed out that you used manipulation to shift attention away from Newb.
I tried (and failed I supposed) to sarcastically say that Cephrir used manipulation to shift attention back and implicate you.
Fenris felt I was being ignorant, which is unfortuately a valid interpretation of my post.
I explained what I was actually trying to do.

Originally Posted by Fenris

Swell-ly done, then!

EDIT: I did not find you ignorant! I just thought I'd point that out. Everybody is ignorant of everything but their and their team-mates (if it so applies) roles!

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

Hey, I'm not insulted by being called ignorant. I can and do easily make dumb mistakes in this game and having them pointed out is a good thing. I'm a typical newb at this, and I understand that.

And that's it. Oh, and I quoted Fenris when countering Cephrir for saying that manipulative and scum mean the same thing.

Where's the motive?

EDIT: for mislabeled quote tags
EDIT again for missed quote to GARUD

[Roy_D_Mylote]

He kept showing how your posts could be scummy, is the motive.

[Ryanderman]

He pointed out 1 post. Which I then explained. And he immediately accepted my explanation. Hardly a reason to kill for.