Unknown Mafia: The Second Coming of The Kneumatic Pnight: Part Deux: The Actual Game

[Sithdarth]

And how do we know that the vigs don't have some sort of clause where they lose if they die? Maybe that would be a reason for the remaining one not to come forward?

Because its stupid? Further, its less likely then any of the other options present.

You insist on voting for somebody? Why don't we vote for you? You're not listening but are instead repeating the same mantra over and over.

We could vote for me, I don't really care. I just know how it'd end up and so haven't suggested it.

I insist on voting for someone because its always better to lynch someone if there is even a remote chance of hitting an evil role. It's always better statistically.

Your plan does not work because then we'd be losing 3 town aligned instead of 2. Let's just vote a No Lynch, and have the vigs choose not to kill at night this night. If there is still a kill at night, then we know that either one vig didn't listen or that we were wrong.

Yes we lose 3 town aligned roles, POTENTIALLY, but it puts us in a better position should we be wrong. If we are wrong and we vote no lynch we've lost two roles and we've given up a chance to hit an evil role. This would be the absolute best case for the evil roles.

Further, a no lynch now would mean two deaths. I find it dubious that KP would allow a role to say "I target no one". And if he did and the other role wasn't the vig then the vig dies without getting is last shot in. This way means we both give up our known town role and our only means of fighting back, ie the lynch. Not to mention placing us in the position of once again not knowing jack and having to poke about blindly.

Edit: Further why do some roles get to choose not to use their powers and others don't?

[Silly Kitty]

Originally Posted by FenrisWolf

They can't choose to not kill, that's what.

What about them targeting one of the vigs who are targeting each other?

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

Edit: Further why do some roles get to choose not to use their powers and others don't?

It's in the job description. The Vigs can choose to kill, the mafia may not, the SK may not.

EDIT to SK: Then we still have nothing to worry about. There'd be a description of the Vig getting killed as the Mafia and the other Vig attacked.

[Sithdarth]

It's in the job description. The Vigs can choose to kill, the mafia may not, the SK may not.

Where exactly. For one the vig isn't even part of the original mafia rules. Further, all I can find about the vig says he PMs who he wants to kill nothing about choosing. Additionally, allowing the vig to choose not to kill negates the point of the vig. The vig's role is something of a double edged sword and allowing him/her not to kill removes all the balance from the game.

EDIT to SK: Then we still have nothing to worry about. There'd be a description of the Vig getting killed as the Mafia and the other Vig attacked.

There is absolutely nothing to suggests the KP would feel obligated to make that clear to us.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

Where exactly. For one the vig isn't even part of the original mafia rules. Further, all I can find about the vig says he PMs who he wants to kill nothing about choosing. Additionally, allowing the vig to choose not to kill negates the point of the vig. The vig's role is something of a double edged sword and allowing him/her not to kill removes all the balance from the game.

You're wrong.

It allows the Vig to make informed decisions. If they feel that they have no hint as to who to kill, then they do not have to. However, if they have a hunch and are wrong, then that is what balances the game. Vigs can always choose to kill or not to kill. Go look it up in the old games.

There is absolutely nothing to suggests the KP would feel obligated to make that clear to us.

That's nice. He's a mafia GO, he's obligated to reply in kind.

Seriously, now you're grasping.

[Sithdarth]

Ok so now KP has the option to totally eliminate the mafia from a game and change the win condition and yet not change anything else. I submit that it is you that is grasping further I did look at a few older games, while not all, the ones I did look at said nothing at all about the vig being optional. If anything its totally up to the gm.

I mean really if he is so concerned with messing with the rules to mess with our minds why would he adhere to any rules. Especially ones that would keep the game making sense.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

Ok so now KP has the option to totally eliminate the mafia from a game and change the win condition and yet not change anything else. I submit that it is you that is grasping further I did look at a few older games, while not all, the ones I did look at said nothing at all about the vig being optional. If anything its totally up to the gm.

I mean really if he is so concerned with messing with the rules to mess with our minds why would he adhere to any rules. Especially ones that would keep the game making sense.

You do have a point. However, who is to say that he is going to change the vig's role?

Let's ask POS, he's a vig.

So, POS, can you choose whether or not to kill?

[Sithdarth]

Let's ask POS, he's a vig.

So, POS, can you choose whether or not to kill?

And why precisely do we have any reason at all to trust him in anyway. Its about as useless as a roleclaim.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

And why precisely do we have any reason at all to trust him in anyway. Its about as useless as a roleclaim.

Because he's the closest thing we have to a sure-shot and he provided evidence.

[Sithdarth]

There was no evidence. It was all his word and that's not evidence. Evidence is what we'd have by following through with my plan. Hell I could go off on how I thought the other two night kills were scum and how I felt I had to kill them. Its not that hard to make that up. Trusting anyone in this game without some sort of actual verification above and beyond their word is totally illogical. Its perfectly natural that you guys think I could be potentially trying to get you to do something bad. However, no one has yet to actually poke a valid hole in my argument. A hole that would demonstrate how following it does not put us in the best possible position for a town win assuming the two vig theory is wrong.