Boycott Atlus

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Jagos

His example had more information. You tend to stop at "transphobia sucks because society sucks" without a strong explanation in that regard. I saw SS' Naoto Youtube and couldn't figure out the rest which is where PCD came in.

Man, I'm getting sick and fucking tired of the whole "Liz made some mistakes in the past (or whatever you want to call it), therefore I'm going to be an irreconcilable hardass around Liz regarding every single argument s/he makes."

It's utterly strange insofar as Liz hasn't really said anything whatsoever that's any harsher than what Pocheros, I, Marc, PCD, Cabal, and like five other users present here have been typing, yet several of you seem hellbent on explicitly including completely unnecessary snide little remarks about Liz's so-called 'agenda' and how horrible a debater s/he is and how gosh-darned mean s/he is, etc.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, insofar as the more Liz has to put up with that shit, the more likely s/he is going to go off and (rightfully) explode, because s/he's made the same damn argument respectfully fifty trillion times and for some reason none of you are actually bothering to read it.

Not only that, but the more it happens the more I wonder whether this is actually being used as some sort of a derailing strategy by opponents. Oh hey, Liz and a bunch of NPFers are absolutely trashing your fatally flawed, prejudiced argument with logic.
How to escape the situation with your precious reputation intact?
Well, if you blast Liz with ad hominem shit, deliberately ignore Liz's logical points and concentrate only on assumptions regarding past reputation and present intentions, and deliberately aggravate Liz to a boiling point, you can escape and Liz will be the be one throttled by the Mods!!! Perfect!!!

I'm not saying like, every person who's questioned Liz in this thread necessarily has these nefarious intentions, but when you see the same pattern several straight times, it at least becomes a legitimate question regarding one's intentions. Even on a subconscious level, I do suspect some of you are ignoring the logic in Liz's posts and concentrating on past behavior because it's just so much easier to derail than it is to do the prerequisite fifteen minutes of research.

And if you're so impervious to rational arguments that your only recourse is to attack the presumed 'reputation' of the person advancing the argument with shit like "Oh, it's Liz's modus operandi, s/he's known for getting too angry about this bullshit," then your subsequent responses are basically flamebait. You're not positively engaging in discourse; you're just seeing how long you can revel in your blissful ignorance before Liz and friends explode -- and then gleefully hoping that they're the ones who catch the flak from the Mod Squad the moment said explosions happen.

[shiney]

Again - enough of the sniping, everyone. Liz has been decent in this thread, considering, and that is enough. Please don't make any further tension. Debate the issue on its merits at the very least.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Liz

Whee more proof that Atlus is a transphobic as fuck company

iirc that particular artbook also listed the penultimate villain as being female.

you know, the main villain who looks like this. and is voiced by Norio Wakamoto.

So, while admittedly speaking as someone who has light experience with book publishing and none with the nature of artbooks, it seems like there's a low but nonzero chance here that Erica being listed as male with the name Eric may be less "transphobia" and more "the editor of the art book just straight up does not give a fuck about plot accuracy."

This is not defending Erica's treatment in the game itself, mind (haven't played Catherine because I haven't owned any sort of game console in 3 years) just pointing out that this part may not be atlas' fault.

[Kim]

The art book misspelling her name I could buy. The art book misspelling her name and listing her gender as male? No.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Liz

The art book misspelling her name I could buy. The art book misspelling her name and listing her gender as male? No.

well, what I'm saying is that its entirely possible that the team assigned to putting the artbook together was given a quick blurb on the history of each character to expand upon, and if they had something that included "Formerly named Eric, was biologically male until undergoing SAS" then the copywrighter may have just zeroed in on "Eric" and "male" and put that in because copywrighters and layout designers have no fucking time to be playing videogames and seeing what the actual deal is with the characters. Perhaps its not the more likely of options, but its not like the artbook is entirely bereft of errors with this single exception.

[Kim]

Except the art book doesn't exist in a void. It exists in the same world where the game itself is incredibly transphobic. The art book for a transphobic game being transphobic isn't exactly a stretch of the imagination.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Liz

Except the art book doesn't exist in a void.

you would be fucking shocked, actually. In most cases these sort of supplemental materials are sent off to an entirely unrelated company and worked on by people who know literally nothing about the game except what's in the assignment info and what little scraps they can google, and the "Assignment info" usually consists of copies of the concept art and a few relevant snippets of information for the copywriters to deal with.

[Kim]

...

Please read the entirety of my post, stefan.

[Marelo]

So, at one end of the spectrum of possibility for this situation, we have one company and its products being transphobic, and on the other end, we have two companies and their products being transphobic, with one company guiding the other.

I'm not really sure why this is such an important distinction to draw?

[Grimpond]

Originally Posted by shiney

Again - enough of the sniping, everyone. Liz has been decent in this thread, considering, and that is enough. Please don't make any further tension. Debate the issue on its merits at the very least.