A conversation about conversations about bigotry

[Nique]

Relm, Pretty sure Snake is meeting you halfway by linking the data on those statistics so how about you stop being obtuse.

Ecks, it doesn't matter what a woman (or man) is wearing or doing, they are never asking to be raped. Like, I understand what you're saying but we need to remove this idea that a rape victim is somehow culpable in any way whatsoever.

[Relm Zephyrous]

Originally Posted by Nique

Pretty sure Snake is meeting you halfway by linking the data on those statistics so how about you stop being obtuse.

Is this directed at me? Because it doesn't make sense directed at me, but context says it can't be directed at anybody else but me.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Nique

Pretty sure Snake is meeting you halfway by linking the data on those statistics so how about you stop being obtuse.

Originally Posted by Krylo

Ecks Nique, less sarcasm hostility, please? This is a pretty teetertottering into hostile territory discussion so lets like, try not to do that.

Snake, watch your tone a little, too.

I don't really wanna be a hard ass, but I'm going to be trying to make a push in coming days to try and get this forum to be more civil, AND to avoid derailing over tone.

As part of that I'm going to be trying to make it fall heavier on moderators to enforce tone on both sides of arguments so that actual users in the arguments don't have feel compelled to do so. Because I can't tell people to leave tone to the purview of the moderators and the moderators only if the moderators aren't going to be doing that.

AND as that's a huge extra bunch of work for moderators I'm going to be helping with that for at least awhile.

Which is to say expect more of this all over.

[Relm Zephyrous]

Nique, how would you recommend that I 'stop being obtuse'?

[Jagos]

To lighten up the tone a bit:

Women as CEOs help companies run better

[Ecks]

Thats what I meant nique I just didn't word it properly. Rape implies a lack of consent. What you are wearing or doing can't be misconstrued for giving consent whatsoever. I spent a while on project unbreakable.

And I dont know whats the more sick: some of the shit their abusers said or what their family and friends said!

I'm appalled that anyone thinks a victim bears any responsibility for their assault! Thats like saying a home invasion victim was responsible for the robbery because "his windows were open that night"

Man this stuff makes me sad to share chromosomes with these scumbags.

[Relm Zephyrous]

To clarify, I'm asking why Nique is calling me obtuse because from the context of everything it seems like he's "teetertottering into hostile territory" because I decided to say the equivalent of "Let us agree to disagree". And I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.


Also, about the women running companies thing, i can see where it makes sense. Hopefully it indeed will lead to more equality in the high up cases.

[Nique]

Originally Posted by Relm Zephyrous

Nique, how would you recommend that I 'stop being obtuse'?

First: Yes ok my comment was veering into hostile territory. Also it was pretty curt so, sorry for that.

Now, my point was that Snake made a post that addressed your concerns about the accuracy of the data (which is derailing, at least slightly, because the issues we are discussing are already well established - rape culture exists, sexism exists, and they exist in such a way that everyday people like you and I can easily p.articipate in and perpetuate it, often without realizing it).

You were being obtuse in continuing to argue a minor point in the disscussion of sexism that Snake's post already addressed.

[Relm Zephyrous]

Yes it exists, but the degree to which it exists was in question. The data presented made it seem like nearly all college males were like that, when this is not necessarily true. The data he gave me was sufficient to know a few things about the study, enough to say that the data presented to give this impression is misleading.

And being obtuse in making my point clear and what we thought? That seems like you glossed over my post, because of the following.

A. I got the topic up that was truly at hand, Snake believed that as long as there are more than 0 that think this way it doesn't matter how many do, whereas I believe that the amount of sexist people think that way is significant. That is the crux of the matter.
B. I knew that we were likely not going to convince each other on this core issue, so I decided to leave that topic off hand, and extend a genuine offer to talk about something that we could pull merit from. You calling me obtuse for arguing my point seems to lose some ground when I had, right before you said that, said "I'll agree to disagree, lets move on".

[Nique]

This is what you actually said;

But alright, since we've reached the point where the contention is that I believe the amount of people that believe a given thing matters, and you do not believe the amount of people that believe a given thing matters as long as it is above 0, we've reached the point upon wherein we can't progress the discussion further.

So what would you prefer to talk about?

This seems to misrepresent what Snake was actually saying as well as dismiss the fact that he did address your concern over the data.

Also; Your ending remark sounds disingenuous.

Originally Posted by Relm

The data presented made it seem like nearly all college males were like that, when this is not necessarily true.

Except that the point is not that ALL MEN ARE EVIL, it's that there are huge swaths of the population affected by problematic viewpoints that are, at best ignorant, and at worst actively harmful.

Like, this kind of attitude towards women is known. There are studies. It is observable. It affects everyone. Your insistence that these statistics must be wrong is derailing, especially since they're not wrong.