New Webcomics Thread is Tremendously Magnificent

[Amake]

I don't see how funny faces are less fun than no funny faces. Or eight simple jokes instead of one. I mean, people (me) remember VG Cats strips and go back to them year after year to laugh. How many times do you see yourself reading that Nidorina strip? Or making faces as you tell your friends about it? Maybe you all prefer gags that rely on shock and novelty and can be forgotten in five minutes, that's fine if it works for you, but I like jokes with staying power.

Also, poop.

what pokemon do you know?

I guess I could name about 50. How would you learn those 150 by heart if you don't watch the shows or play the games?

More importantly, does it make any difference to the joke which pokemon it's about?

[Mike McC]

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

I don't see how funny faces are less fun than no funny faces.

Not a matter of them being used, a matter of them being overused and relied upon. Besides, the Nidorina comic is far more expressive than Ramsoomair's stock WACKY EXPRESSIONs!!1

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

Or eight simple jokes instead of one.

If you crowd in too much material into a limited space, then everything looses it's impact. It's like having a character in a novel walk in and give a massive all-encompassing infodump. There's really no need to insert wackiness and jokes into every panel, especially since that does quite a bit to diminish the set-up. It's really best to focus on one or two jokes at a time. This allows for better set-up and timing.

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

I mean, people (me) remember VG Cats strips and go back to them year after year to laugh. How many times do you see yourself reading that Nidorina strip? Or making faces as you tell your friends about it? Maybe you all prefer gags that rely on shock and novelty and can be forgotten in five minutes, that's fine if it works for you, but I like jokes with staying power.

This is baffling, as, really, it's essentially the same joke. They both have pretty much identical staying power using that criteria. However, the Nidorina one is more fluidly expressive, and really is more visually appealing than the VGCats strip, which is pretty much a copy-paste fest with minor alterations to the head, and frankly lazy artwork, even by Ramsoomair standards.

Also, VGCats? It is practically completely composed jokes that rely on shock value and novelty.

Also, poop.

Yes, that too.

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

More importantly, does it make any difference to the joke which pokemon it's about?

Apparently to you, it does. Eh-hem....

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

Some stupid pokemon I never heard of

Anyway, Mirai has the right of it here. (Me, agreeing with Mirai! Make note, kiddies.) The Nidorina comic is better written in that the outcome is not immediately obvious. In VG Cats the punchline is telegraphed in the set-up. The crux of humor is found in the unexpected, in going against preconceived notions, defying expectations.

[01d55]

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

I don't see how funny faces are less fun than no funny faces. Or eight simple jokes instead of one. I mean, people (me) remember VG Cats strips and go back to them year after year to laugh. How many times do you see yourself reading that Nidorina strip? Or making faces as you tell your friends about it? Maybe you all prefer gags that rely on shock and novelty and can be forgotten in five minutes, that's fine if it works for you, but I like jokes with staying power.

Man I dunno about older VGcats, they just don't hold up against the newer stuff. IIRC he got a tablet at some point and his stuff has just looked better ever since.

otoh all of this "ugh WACKY FACES" talk sounds like stuff that could be said about Awkward Zombie and fuck anyone who doesn't love AZ.

[Mirai Gen]

The joke in BITF is the surprise of the punchline and the lack of expectation, and is therefore funnier.

[Amake]

My own research shows most humor is based on absurdity. See Incongruity-resolution theory.

But that's beside the point. I can't make sense of your complaints about VG Cats. It's based on shock value, yet it overworks its punch lines? It's cheap and unimaginative, but still packed with too much material?

Comics work best when overloading the reader with information, you know. Look at Watchmen for the extreme example. But it works on a smaller level here, making a strip that demands a minute or two to read and interpret it, but offers a lot in return. (Nine jokes are still more than one.) It's something quite unique to comics, and a part of why I like them. What the Rare Candy strip loses in initial impact, it more than makes up with lasting appeal and material for debates such as this one. The BITF strip could have been a five second gag in a Jay Leno monologue if he was a little nerdier, and worked just as well. Who's going to care about it ten years from now?

Yeah, it might have been funnier at first, depending on your preference, but we're not exactly talking about any busted ribs, are we? Be honest: Did anyone here even crack an audible giggle?

[Tev]

I'm just saying that side-by-side, on their own merits (remove VG Cats' history for me because I'm not really an avid reader of their material) I feel the Brawl comic did a better job of poking fun at the "four moves per Pokemon" in-joke.

Also, historically, not only was VG Cats not the first people to try out that joke, if their little Pokemon spin-off comic Super Effective ever picks up some steam and starts updating more than once every month or so then they will most likely end up making the joke a second time.

Anyway, if you like the VG Cats version better (because of poop and funny faces) then that's cool. I just happen to like Brawl's take. I was just a little startled earlier when you seemed to be disregarding Brawl's because you couldn't visually cue on one of the more basic pokemon out there and one that is really notable for being the only pokemon of its time to display gender differences.

[Mike McC]

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

My own research shows most humor is based on absurdity.

That article pretty much agrees with my statement that humor is "going against preconceived notions". However, one should be careful with the word 'absurd'. Absurd may simply mean it goes against expectations, but it could also mean WHOAOAOA MONKEY CHEESE WEASEL GYM SHORT! The random. Which far more often than not falls extremely flat. It is best to stick with the more technical terms presented, especially since 'absurd humor' could be considered its own entity. It takes some serious skill to intentionally pull off absurd humor. This is why so many shows that try to emulate Monty Python's Flying Circus fall flat.

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

But that's beside the point. I can't make sense of your complaints about VG Cats. It's based on shock value, yet it overworks its punch lines? It's cheap and unimaginative, but still packed with too much material?

These are not contradictions. They are not mutually exclusive concepts. You can try for shock, and yet essentially be screaming LOOK LOOK LOOK AN EDGY JOKE . And being cheap and unimaginative really has no bearing on how much cheap and unimaginative shit you can cram into a small space. These are simply signs of poor writing.

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

Comics work best when overloading the reader with information, you know.

Incorrect. Comics work best when the author plays to his writing strengths. The same as with any work of fiction. Also, as a general rule, the more complicated and dense you make the material, the better your writing chops have to be, and you run a greater risk of messing up. Watchmen is a good example of a complex mystery done right, but with a little digging, I can turn up some comics with simple premises that are utterly sublime. In most cases, staying simple and focused is generally better, unless the author has some serious writing chops.

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

(Nine jokes are still more than one.)

Not necessarily. If given a choice between one hilarious joke or nine moderately funny jokes, I'd prefer the one hilarious one. Quantity does not matter if they do not have the quality to back them up. And, more often than not, cramming more jokes in diminishes overall quality.

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

It's something quite unique to comics, and a part of why I like them. What the Rare Candy strip loses in initial impact, it more than makes up with lasting appeal and material for debates such as this one.

The "lasting appeal" is highly, highly debatable. The artwork is unimpressive and lazy. The joke is simple, telegraphed in advance, and followed up with a LOL HE POOPED gag. That particular strip seems more a throw-away gag to fill in an update without resorting to filler. Honestly the Brawl comic doesn't have much lasting appeal as well, but it is still overall the better presented of the two.

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

Be honest: Did anyone here even crack an audible giggle?

The Nidorina comic did get a chuckle out of me. And I assume that Dononmi laughed as well, or why would he post a comic that was mildly amusing to him?

[Donomni]

Originally Posted by Mike McC

And I assume that Dononmi laughed as well, or why would he post a comic that was mildly amusing to him?

Oh, man, you seriously don't want me to answer this one.

[Mike McC]

Originally Posted by Donomni

Oh, man, you seriously don't want me to answer this one.

Or what? I'll be proven incorrect in my assumption? It's not even as if my overall statement hinged upon you laughing at it.

[Amake]

I didn't mean to say comics automatically get better the more things you have in them, only that it's a superior art form for information overloads.

Otherwise, I'll just get back to you in 2020, and then we shall see where we stand.