An Open Letter to Nintendo

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Loyal

I'm sure that modern-day Wii titles are just as magical for the newer generations, as games like Super Mario Bros and Legend of Zelda were for us.

I would both agree and disagree with this.

I'd agree that Twilight Princess and Prime are just as 'magical' for the newer generation as the original Legend of Zelda and Mario Brothers. However, those are not the majority of Wii games.

I highly doubt that AMF bowling pinbusters is as magical for this generation as games like Contra were for ours. There is a difference of depth and breadth (for the time) between the majority of Wii games and those NES games we still remember and/or those games which are currently coming out for the Wii's competition. I'm actually pretty sure that when tomorrow's generation of gamers looks back at what games were 'magical' for them, they'll be talking about Fable 2, Mass Effect, etc. as opposed to the majority of Wii games.

The Wii is simply not a system which sees 'core' gamers as it's core demographic. Unlike Setheris, I'm not going to say that's a bad thing. Getting more people into gaming is a good thing, even if that means the people who have been playing for ages are no longer the target demographic of a particular system--because once they learn to enjoy video games, many of these people will learn to enjoy deeper and better video games.

Besides--more money going into gaming means more people will attempt to create games, which means more games. Yeah, sure, that's going to mean more bad games, but it'll also mean more good games.

Originally Posted by Phil

And that's the article I was calling stupid in my last post. Because, geeze, coming out last year is not a valid argument against Prime 3 or Galaxy.

He wasn't arguing against them, at all. I suggest re-reading the article.

What he WAS saying is that a company pointing at games that came out a year ago as justification for their 'continued commitment to core gamers' is ridiculous. Nintendo hasn't put out a good core game in ages, while other systems have been putting out a number of good core games. Fallout 3, Fable 2, Mercenaries 2, the new WoW expansion, Gears of War 2, etc. etc.

In the meantime what has Nintendo done? A copy-pasta of Animal Crossing with a bare minimum of (if any) innovation. Great to help those casuals get more into core games, not so great for those of us that have already played Animal Crossing and don't need to play the same game on a new system.

Again: I don't see what Nintendo has been doing as a bad thing. They're doing a good thing, both for their business, and the business of making games as a whole: getting more people interested in games.

That, however, doesn't mean that Setheris/IGN's complaints aren't valid ones.

Nintendo has turned it's back on the 'core' gamers.

Also, I hate the term 'core' and 'hardcore' but I'm not sure what else to call them/us.

Oh, and RT: Next time someone says that all a company is offering is sequels, you shouldn't post animated gifs of a sequel.

No More Heroes would have been a much better argument.

P.S. You guys, if you have a Wii and have not played No More Heroes, go and buy it. Especially you Seth. Especially you.

Edit:

Originally Posted by phil_

Go play it again, like you did when you were 10 and life revolved around Super Mario World.

[...]

I guess what I'm saying is that I have fun with my games, and I actually play them more than once. I still (and I think it's rediculous that I have to use "still" there) play Brawl, and it's still awesome. I play through Rock Band, even though I've unlocked all the songs, because it's fun to play. Hell, I still occasionally play Wii Sports, because the tennis game is still fun, the golf game is still fun, and bowling's still fun. What I'm saying here is, yeah, there are good games out there, and if you play them like when you were a kid, you can have fun like when you were a kid. Except you won't die as much. .

This is pretty invalid to this argument as well, honestly.

Sure, you can go back and replay Mario Galaxy or whatever, but why should we when we can play amazing new games on other systems: or, if we ARE going to replay games, how about Resistance: Fall of Man, Heavenly Sword, Drake's Fortune, Eternal Sonata, Mass Effect, Bio Shock, Devil May Cry 4, Assassin's Creed, Lost Odyssey, Blacksite: Area 51, Portal, Beautiful Katamari, etc? Just because there are a couple of games for the Wii that might appeal to some 'core' gamers, that doesn't mean that they have anything resembling a real commitment to keeping our business.

IF Seth was talking about the gaming industry as a whole, I'd be right behind your argument, but instead he's talking about the Wii's lacking 'core' library specifically, and I just don't see how "Well go replay some games!" is at all a valid argument against a lacking library.

Also: My life never revolved around Super Mario World. I was more of an FF6 (which I'm replaying right now) and CT type of person.

[Jagos]

... Ok, seriously, this is about an appeal to the hardcore gamer?

If they don't like the Wii for the games, they shouldn't buy the Wii. It's not like they're hurting for sales at this point. But Nintendo is seriously doing something that the other two aren't necessarily doing in huge numbers:

Innovation

Seriously, Galaxy is an awesome game. I wouldn't care if it came out in 1999, I'd still want to own it. But it's ironic that they have Wii Fit and Boxing and yet people are saying that's not something great.

Personally, I'd love to get a Wii over a PS3. The games are fun and I am kinda older now. Gotta have something for when friends come over.

[Regulus Tera]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Oh, and RT: Next time someone says that all a company is offering is sequels, you shouldn't post animated gifs of a sequel.

I was answering to the "Nintendo doesn't have the Nintendo magic anymore" comment, not to the "Nintendo sucks for making sequels and nothing else" one.

Which is still funny, because Nintendo has pumped out more original IPs this generation than the last.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Jagos

... Ok, seriously, this is about an appeal to the hardcore gamer?

If they don't like the Wii for the games, they shouldn't buy the Wii.

I think a lot of it is that most 'hardcore gamers' grew up on Nintendo, and while a lot of us realized Nintendo wasn't where we wanted to be when the 64 and Gamecube gave us shitty libraries back to back, there's still quite a few who are just now breaking their company loyalty.

A lot of core gamers don't want to leave Nintendo, but are feeling more and more like they have no choice.

But Nintendo is seriously doing something that the other two aren't necessarily doing in huge numbers:

Innovation

Because it's not innovation if it doesn't have waggle controls, right?

Originally Posted by RT

Nintendo has pumped out more original IPs this generation than the last.

Yeah, but when Last Generation was the Gamecube, that's not sayin' much.

[Regulus Tera]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Yeah, but when Last Generation was the Gamecube, that's not sayin' much.

For the suckiness that was the GameCube, Nintendo pumped out a shitload of new stuff during that time (Animal Crossing, Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, Drill Dozer, Golden Sun, Chibi Robo, Advance Wars, WarioWare...)

I put GBA stuff in there because any serious Nintendo fan know handhelds are where the shit's at with this company.

[Jagos]

I think a lot of it is that most 'hardcore gamers' grew up on Nintendo, and while a lot of us realized Nintendo wasn't where we wanted to be when the 64 and Gamecube gave us shitty libraries back to back, there's still quite a few who are just now breaking their company loyalty.

A lot of core gamers don't want to leave Nintendo, but are feeling more and more like they have no choice.

Maybe it's from having a more casual stance on it, but there is something for them. The games for the most part ARE still challenging from Nintendo, just a lot is different than having another generic FPS. Seriously, the Big N isn't really known for that which is what's defining the other two consoles. I doubt highly that a new GoldenEye or Perfect Dark (both Rare titles btw) would turn the tide. I just think people are making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to Nintendo having games that aren't all about processing polygons.

-Edit- I seriously think if Yokoi was still with the company, the 64 had a lot of potential. But he did drop the ball on the Virtual Boy but that's an entirely 'nother set of beans...

[Regulus Tera]

Originally Posted by Jagos

-Edit- I seriously think if Yokoi was still with the company, the 64 had a lot of potential. But he did drop the ball on the Virtual Boy but that's an entirely 'nother set of beans...

The N64 lost the war the moment it was announced it would use cartridges instead of CDs. No amount of Yokoi could have reversed that.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Has first party support really gotten that bad? I thought the problem was mainly the same one it's always been: unenthusiastic third parties.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Jagos

... Ok, seriously, this is about an appeal to the hardcore gamer?

If they don't like the Wii for the games, they shouldn't buy the Wii. It's not like they're hurting for sales at this point. But Nintendo is seriously doing something that the other two aren't necessarily doing in huge numbers:

I hate the term hardcore gamer, because lately people seem to think it means football jock who plays too much Halo.

Honestly, "If they don't like the Wii for the games, they shouldn't buy the Wii."? That's what you're going with? Really? That seems like a flawed, almost petty, argument. Is Nintendo hurting for money? No, but I can't remember any recent game to come out for the Wii that I actually gave a damn about. The only one I'm looking forward to right now is No More Heroes 2. The only one. Maybe I missed something, but there is probably a problem with your games library if that's the only game actual gamers are looking forward to. It doesn't even come out till 2010. Maybe I just don't understand how AWESOME Wii Music is. Or there's... Sonic Unleashed?

I give Nintendo props for trying to be innovative, but when you focus on being innovative rather than coming out with games for your loyal fanbase, rather than old people and small children who don't know any better, I can't help but think you're doing something wrong.

[Regulus Tera]

Originally Posted by ZAKtheGeek

Has first party support really gotten that bad? I thought the problem was mainly the same one it's always been: unenthusiastic third parties.

Nintendo of America dropped the ball and forgot that they had Disaster, Fatal Frame 4, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, Professor Layton and Pandora's Box, Card Hero, that Heracles game for DS and Tenchu 4 to localise for this holiday. The other branches (NCL and NoE) are in fact doing an amazing job.

Regarding third parties, this thread is a good place to start. 2009 seems to be a killer year for Wii.