Pokemon Umbral Discussion 32: Ultimate Showdown of Ascended Classes

[Geminex]

Menarker, you're much more insulting than usual. I'm impressed.
Though really, this seems to be less about venting, and more about putting me in my place.

I really don't think my arguments are shitty in any way at all. Of course power varies from pokemon to pokemon. But in general, whenever there's a really strong power, such as huge power (which effectively doubles a stat for god's sake, it gives Swampert another 110 free points into base stats how the fuck is that not overpowered?), there will only be very, very few pokemon with that ability. Why is that, you ask? Well, I don't know. But if I made an educated guess, I say imagine that the ability was never meant to be freely available. And if you think really hard, you might be able to come up with a reason for that. If I had to make another educated guess, I'd say that said reason will probably involve the fact that there's a huge fucking difference between making pokemon more versatile and stronger by giving them a bigger selection of abilties to choose from, and by grossly overpowering a pokemon by doubling one of its main stats.

Of course, if you can make a coherent argument why it would be beneficial to a fair and balanced game if Swampert's attack suddenly doubled, I'm all ears. And the same applies to Flower Gift (because, really, not even serene grace compares to that. Totally different league). But, the way I see it, there's just no possible justification, asides from 'I want my pokemon to be more powerful and for all of you to pay more attention to me'

And one more thing...
See, I don't hate pokemon (why the fuck would you think I do? Cause I play Impact? That's called role-playing. Make believe. You should try it some time). I hate it when people make their characters more powerful than they should be by bending the rules. You seem to love doing that, hence my frequent... protests. I don't have much of a problem with what Drac does, and I'm thinking that Bard could totally utilize his team some more!
It's only your goodself I have a problem with. :3

And would you please stop telling me to cease balancing? AB specifically asked us to do so. And even if he didn't, I'll gladly stop! I don't enjoy these discussions. But as long as you fucking abuse the system, I'll call you out on your bullshit.

The tone of your post seems to imply defiance of some sort. I'm really not sure why. Are you personalizing this? Somehow assuming that I'm trying to give you orders? Cause you'd be wrong on both counts. I've given you my opinion on your proposed changes. Going "You're not the boss of me!" and

*Smiles about Huge Power Swampert and Flower Gift Shaymin he'll present*

just to show me how wrong I am and how I can't tell you what to do is an entirely misplaced show of defiance. I'm not trying to tell you what to do.

I'm trying to make this game fair, or at the very least, to help AB do so. By going against that, you're generating more work for both him and me. I've never asked this before, but I'm gonna ask it now: Take a step back. See all of this objectively, instead of subjectively. Think about it. Because howevermuch you confuse me with my character, I honestly think that I'm the objective, the moderate one here.

[DanteFalcon]

I considered Kecleon but his is too easy to get screwed over with. Castform I can change easily enough and Porygon Z is by choice. But yeah Kecleon would be really really funny.

[Astral Harmony]

Mornin' guys. I had little time in the mornin' (database error showed up anyways) and I have even less time now. Soon's I get offa work, I'll check all the questions and the one PM and get back to you.

I will say, though, that I think Charlotte should be allowed to have Arceus since Pierce laid claim to Diagla, gave Palkia to Sam, and is soon to gain Enmekki as well while Renny has Shaymin, Mollesk, and Latias so far as I remember.

[Menarker]

I got no problem with Charlotte having Arceus. While Renny isn't likely to use Latias any time soon, I'm pretty darn happy with Shaymin and Mollesk.

EDIT: Also, Drac? I think Anti-cheater might be better off as a high stat monster. Since it can't be buffed, protected or such like that and can't attack for STAB, the only way it can make a meaningful contribution is by virtue of out-muscling the foe.

I mean, that "sniping" ability that allows you to penetrate the defenses of bosses sounds great on paper, but your one attack on the boss is unlikely to do damage significant enough to cause it to keel over or flee or such, especially if everyone else can't join in to help you out (Unless you have it so he can negate the buffs and protection of that target for short period of time, such as 3 attacks or a round). In the process, foes guarding the boss is sure to attempt to knock out Anti-cheater. While their buffs and such are without meaning in the light of the Indifference ability, it wouldn't help that much if Anti-cheater doesn't have the base stamina to withstand being ganged up on a bit.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Arceus plz k thx bai!

I can probably find something kick something off the team to make room for God's Avatar on Earth.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

I will say, though, that I think Charlotte should be allowed to have Arceus since Pierce laid claim to Diagla, gave Palkia to Sam, and is soon to gain Enmekki as well while Renny has Shaymin, Mollesk, and Latias so far as I remember.

Sure, Bard can have Arceus. His team could use the firepower. I got no problem with it.

Also, I'll probably end up giving a Legendary or two to Elizabeth. Gotta fill up her eight slots somehow, and she only gets ten levels so what the hell, she's going to need the firepower too. And then there's my side-RP character! I still gotta pick a team for her. I'll probably only end up giving her one Legendary along with Anti-cheater.

Also AB, remember the ability Pressure? The one that's useless right now? I proposed a while back that it accelerate the decrease rate of enemy Morale and that it stack when there are several pokemon on the field with Pressure.

The only idea I got is having it start at x1.5 decrease and add .5 for every ally with Pressure. So it goes x1.5, x2, x2.5, x3, x3.5 and so on.

Of course, that's probably overpowered. I'm no good with these kinds of numbers. So I'll leave it to you or someone else to figure out.

Originally Posted by Menarker

EDIT: Also, Drac? I think Anti-cheater might be better off as a high stat monster. Since it can't be buffed, protected or such like that and can't attack for STAB, the only way it can make a meaningful contribution is by virtue of out-muscling the foe.

I mean, that "sniping" ability that allows you to penetrate the defenses of bosses sounds great on paper, but your one attack on the boss is unlikely to do damage significant enough to cause it to keel over or flee or such, especially if everyone else can't join in to help you out (Unless you have it so he can negate the buffs and protection of that target for short period of time, such as 3 attacks or a round). In the process, foes guarding the boss is sure to attempt to knock out Anti-cheater. While their buffs and such are without meaning in the light of the Indifference ability, it wouldn't help that much if Anti-cheater doesn't have the base stamina to withstand being ganged up on a bit.

I take bad every bad thing I've ever said about you. Anti-cheater now has awesome stats! Of course, not too high.

Say Menarker, which pokemon has the highest stats (not counting Legendaries or pseudo-legendaries)? Because I think whatever that number is will be Anti-cheat's base stat.

Also, Xth-level Tyranitar still needs a name! Come on, I'm taking Trainer level 5 for my next upgrade!

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

I take bad every bad thing I've ever said about you. Anti-cheater now has awesome stats! Of course, not too high.

Say Menarker, which pokemon has the highest stats (not counting Legendaries or pseudo-legendaries)? Because I think whatever that number is will be Anti-cheat's base stat.

Also, Xth-level Tyranitar still needs a name! Come on, I'm taking Trainer level 5 for my next upgrade!

You're welcome. Your gratitude is appreciated. ^^

Technically Slaking has the highest with 680 base stat points (Equal to Dialaga and such). However, that high power came with a drawback of his Truant Ability which forced him to only act once every two turns. If you wanted me to exclude Psuedo-legendaries and legendaries, the next most powerful is Arcanine (Charlotte) at 555 and then Togekiss (Renny) at 545.

Although, this can be somewhat misleading because many pokemons have points in stats that they don't use. For example, Garchomp has the stat of 600 (he's a true psuedo-legendary). However, if you don't use his special attack stat of 80 very much at all in favor of his higher attack stat, it'll be practical to say his used stats are closer to 520.

However, these pokemons, psuedos and legendaries are capable of using STAB and resistances and such, while yours wouldn't. Your pokemon would under the best situation be able to maintain a decent offense/defence when everyone else is floundering trying to keep up, while at its worst situation, he's only doing decently while everyone else is pounding or lasting longer for much higher.
Your pokemon would not have access to STAB or buffs, so I'd personally would vouch for something like 640ish or so.

Also, certain things may also influence its usefulness, such as move sets. For example, as you probably noticed, Arcanine has 10 more base stat points than Togekiss. Growlithe however is fairly common to capture, while Togekiss kinda rare. Why the mystery or rareness?
Well, Togekiss has a HUGE movepool, able to use techniques from 15 element types, 16 if you include Toxic. It also has the most amount of "never-miss moves" like Aura Sphere, Shock Wave, Swift, Aerial Ace, and Magical Leaf. And this is before taking in account its special attack is one of the highest out of all pokemons. Serene Grace helps a ton too.
Arcanine has a much more limited move pool in comparision, although still has a little bit of variety.


Also, if you use status moves that don't use buffs but maybe something that prevents attacks like paralysis or party support moves or things that causes set amount of damage like Super Fang or Seismic Toss, then STAB don't matter as much.

As for names, it's hard to think of more... Will Tyranitar change in appearance or behavior after the evolution? Tyranitar means Tyrant Lizard King after all. If he became more benign, then it would change quite a few things. You know, I need descriptions so I can come up with a way to search for certain theme words on Thesauruses and such. :3

[Dracorion]

Well, Anti-cheater's moveset would be pretty varied. And by varied I mean perhaps even bigger than Mew's. Though probably not.

Also, just because it isn't affected by buffs doesn't mean it can't use moves that inflict debuffs on the enemy. Sure, those debuffs won't matter for it's own attacks, but we're supposed to be a team, remember?

Well, Tyranitar is getting character development (rather forced, since I didn't exactly plan to have it evolve this early), so it's personality will of course change slightly. It'll be less reckless and aggresive, perhaps. As for appearance, I'm thinking it'd look like Tyranitar: Bigger, Badder, Back With a Vengeance.

[Astral Harmony]

Armored Bishoujo: "Alrighty, here we go."

Dracorian: "Can I have your babies?"
Armored Bishoujo: "Tell you what, Drac. Remember that weird guess you made about something in your sidequest? Let's just say I have an idea for a new character for the sequel. I'll let you connect the dots, and I hope you're satisfied with it."

*Dracorian talks about his new Pokemon idea*
Armored Bishoujo: "I can't think of Jeanette working with demonic DNA or whatever. Maybe a resident of the Netherworld that Pokeballs work on? At any rate, I wonder why you're so eager for this. Do you just not like regular Pokemon?"

*Dracorian talks about Signature Techniques*
Armored Bishoujo: "Here's what I'm gonna do, Drac. I'm going to have Shizuka join the Crusaders while Chizuru stays with PATCA. If you want, have Drac go with the Crusaders and then all three of his Love Techniques will be with Shizuka. Or keep him in PATCA and they'll work with Chizuru. Because Pierce leaves the group to investigate Sam for his sidequest, this won't be a problem for the sidequest. And we'll make it possible for you to participate in Charlotte's sidequest if you must do that as well. Tough decision? Tough shit. But you get three Love Techniques and only three Love Techniques, for one girl."

*Dracorian wants more SignTechs on demon upgrades*
Armored Bishoujo: "See below.

*Geminex unveils his ideas for his perfect Magatama*
Armored Bishoujo: "Idea accepted. You're gonna be a real bastard, y'know that? I think I should give you an ability that will allow you to just shift enemy attacks on someone you don't like. Anyways, just gimme some time and I should have something good cooked up."

*Dracorian apparently wants a Magatama that specializes in SignTechs*
Armored Bishoujo: "If you absolutely must, then I guess I'll bend to your will, Goshujin-sama (Master). Kind of a waste if you ask me. But no, you can't modify Aura Blade and Spell Ray. Almighty type damage is great. It ignores buffs and certain protection moves so even Mollesk doesn't have a foolproof defense to them."

*Geminex complains about free custom moves*
Armored Bishoujo: "These are specifically for Legendary Pokemon like Mollesk, Enmekki, and Revenard. Know how Legendary Pokemon have their own unique moves that no other Pokemon has? Well, there you go. It's only natural to assume that even homebrew Legendaries have one move that separates them from the common rank and file."

*Menarker mentions Dividing by Zero*
*Armored Bishoujo discreetly creates Dinner's most powerful Destroyer attack*

*Menarker talks about dual-classing*
Armored Bishoujo: "It's going to be the character and one Pokemon. Only Shock Troopers are allowed their prestigious three slots. As a Pokebrid or a Slayer, you generally are much tougher than any single Pokemon unless they've got you really off-guard, like you're low in health, paralyzed, with no Rage and no items. Then a Pokemon might be able to take down either of those classes by itself."

*Dracorian talks about a Trainer/Snagger dual class*
Armored Bishoujo: "You've basically hit on the biggest screwup in this system. It really doesn't benefit someone to dual class as a Trainer and Snagger. The upgrades obviously do not stack, so levels are wasted. All I can suggest are level skips over levels that provide redundant upgrades. If that's done well, a person could probably max out Breeder and Tuner in just 15 easy levels with a good number of levels to spare."

*Menarker talks about the Guardian Globe*
Armored Bishoujo: "More than likely, I think the Ruin armor's special protection will be rather unique. Like, it'll protect from certain cheap moves like Super Fang. I'll come up with a list, and I promise it won't be useless."

*Menarker talks about Overdrive type immunities*
Armored Bishoujo: "They're called Overblades, not Overdrives. Overdrives are what the powered armors do. Anyways, the higher immunity upgrade can be used to protect from the types in the lower upgrade. I'll apply that to the document eventually. And yes, the type immunities protect from every move of that type. Bitchin', no?"

*Menarker wants clarification on Overblade/Deva Rage generation*
Armored Bishoujo: "That's how it is, yes. Overblades and Devas will be generating Rage like they were roid raging. But unfortunately for them, there's some very asshole-level status effects that will keep them in their place. Apathy and Exhaustion, to be specific, will kick them where it really hurts."

*Menarker wants to know about Overdrives*
Armored Bishoujo: "I can't explain them very well. Yes, I know I created them, but there isn't much I can tell you about them. They're exactly like the Pokebrid's SyncTech, and every character is going to have custom Overdrives. Geminex is no exception. He'll basically be allowed to customized the attacks (weapons) and defenses (armor) that come with his RDPA as well as the Overdrive, which will function like a fourth SignTech."

*Menarker asks about the Rage accessory thingie*
Armored Bishoujo: "Damn, what's with all the questions!? I'll fuckin' kill y-" *downs an ice-cold Pepsi* "Where was I? Oh. Yeah, uhhh, I'll kinda need to maybe find that somewhere...that'll be a chore."

*Menarker wonders what Normal immunity grants as a special*
Armored Bishoujo: "It's not really such a big deal that Normal doesn't grant anything special. I mean, it's Normal. Aside from immunity to Ghost type moves, they really didn't stand out as being special. So the Normal immunity doesn't offer a special. Unbalanced? Maybe a little, I s'pose. Do I care? Ask me again after this bigass RP is over."

*Dracorian has a plan for Pressure*
Armored Bishoujo: "Hmmm...I think Pressure would apply better to causing certain things to not work as good. For example, attack the target with a Pokemon or Deva that has Pressure. If someone attempts to heal it or remove a debuff or status effect, it doesn't tend to work, or doesn't work as well. I feel like Pressure could be a great Ability that makes certain that the damage you deal to the target isn't so easily removed, just so long as you occasionally hit that target again to keep the pressure on it."

Is that all so far? Well, time to kick this party off.

EDIT: Aw, man. What an insanely time-consuming post. Guys, I need your help. When you do your tactics, can you also post your formation? It'll really help in knowing who is where and who my actual targets are.

[Geminex]

Impact is covered in white, sticky stuff. Dracorion's dream come true.

Ok, what to do? I'm thinking we bring in some more enforcers. God, there's just so many of the enemy. And I'm guessing they're going to keep getting reinforced... Though hey, we're facing Grant now. Let us show him no mercy.
But anyway. Each of us should just... report on their status. How many pokemon have you go available for battle, how many items?

Impact has only himself... though he has a good selection of items left, I think. Two full restores and a rage rocket, does that sound right?

But how about you? Unless I'm mistaken, Pierce is down to Skarmory and Metagross on the 'usable' front. Menarker's already healing. Charlotte can't have more than one or two left either... Though is Spity is among her survivers, I'd encourage using him. Super Fang on a legendary = love.

But other than that, I think all our trainers should bring in their enforcer. Cause damn, you need a break. Unless any of you have a potentially useful sigtech?

Rachel is going to have her hands full healing and rage-rocketing people. Wilhelmina...
If we give her three rockets, she could go maid-to-mistress again. With one rocket, she could insta-kill an enemy. [COLOR="DarkOrange"]AB, can snipers rage-rocket themselves? Do they have items?[COLOR]. Moon can keep attacking as well, his water moves should be good vs. Sandslash, or does he have any sleep moves? Harliette should just go for full-out damage, with some sleep thrown in. Because I really think sleep on the enemy trainers is the way to go. At least those enemy trainers which we're not allowed to kill. If I wasn't worried that his pokemon would go rogue, I'd have Wilhelmina one-shot Grant.

As for PCs, I'm not sure what to do with us. Impact can continue damaging, as can any Slayers on our side of the field (Cecilia, and Milsha, if she gets switched in). Trainers, d'you have any status moves? Matt could use his sleep powder...

Eh, but I don't know. Suggest tactics for yourselves when you sum up I'm off to the pool with my family.