Pokemon Umbral Discussion 35: Under New Management!

[Geminex]

Welp, I'm not going to comment on your blatant arrogance here, but okay.

I'm not sure whether an admission that I can't actually do anything to force you to abide by these terms counts as arrogant, but fair enough. Phrasing was unfortunate.

And by "refining" I meant "make them better for you". Everyone, I guess. But Drac in particular. Trust me. This is the chance of a lifetime I talked about.
Just need oooone little PM to AB...

And I can't watch the clip. What happens in it?

[Menarker]

Basically an extended parody on Darth Vader going "I altered the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further" to a rather irrate Lando. (Parody includes Darth Vader expecting Lando to wear a pretty dress, wear clown shoes and ride a unicycle.)

I didn't join in all that "making Charlotte leader" thing because I knew that even if you yourself aren't going to be around that much to be directing the various combat plans we make for each post, you're still going to expecting/hoping that in-character Impact is being viewed as the leader (or equilvilant of it). That and I don't care that much either way, although I'm keeping to my end of the bargin by having Renny being obedient and such.

In return...
In return, you, all of you, agree to act only in good faith when you suggest changes, or when AB makes changes and asks for feedback on them. You actually balance.
And we go by my standards.
Roughly, this means that if a single change greatly increases a character's potential in combat, by itself, it's out. If it has obvious potential to do so, this potential is curbed. If it majorly modifies a character's role, it's out. Classes and individual characters will remain at roughly the same power level as each other as they get stronger, though of course they'll specialize on different things. If one's for any reason more powerful than the others, they get nerfed, no matter how powerful, or not, their abilities may be. Either that, or the weak characters get powered up.

I especially do not agree with this. Character roles are going to change drastically over time as people get upgrades or change how their character interacts. Let's take Pierce. At the moment, he's a trainer, not much of a fighter (at least compared to Slayers and Pokebrids). Now if he goes demon or slayer, then his role is going to change drastically because he has the option of partaking in battle more directly, using more items if he's a slayer and whatnot. Or about Renny having that move in the future which attacks multiple times when his allies are weak or knocked out? That's a bit of a change from his current support style to actually having a powerful (although situational) attack. Plus, we might have intentions about how they develop and grow.

Also, some class levels seem more powerful than other classes at the same point, but weaker than the same compared classes at other levels as a manner of making each class stand out at certain times, while still giving each one their powers and utility.
I'm all for discussion, of course. But the particular way you describe how the limits are GOING to be? Too much of a broad stroke of a brush.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

I'm not sure whether an admission that I can't actually do anything to force you to abide by these terms counts as arrogant, but fair enough. Phrasing was unfortunate.

Actually, my quoting was imprecise. I was responding to the first part of that paragraph.

Namely the part where suddenly you're in charge of supervising us, like we really would break the deal after we've already agreed to it. (Shut up, my attempts don't count. Those were bullshit and we both know it.)

Frankly, this isn't quite what I mean to say, but it's much the nicest way to say it. And I think it's adequate enough.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And by "refining" I meant "make them better for you". Everyone, I guess. But Drac in particular. Trust me. This is the chance of a lifetime I talked about.
Just need oooone little PM to AB...

And yet somehow it feels like I'm not getting that good a deal.

Mostly? I don't like being forced to do something like that. Sure, you wouldn't go overboard, but it still rubs me the wrong way. If I had the freedom, I would be as fair as I possibly could be and I'd still accept your suggestions.

But you've pretty much tied my hands now, haven't you? Sure, there's another choice, but it's not really a choice, is it?

Okay, so maybe I'm being a bit too confrontational in this post, I apologize for that.


Also, what in hell are you getting from AB for this?

Originally Posted by Menarker

I didn't join in all that "making Charlotte leader" thing because I knew that even if you yourself aren't going to be around that much to be directing the various combat plans we make for each post, you're still going to expecting/hoping that in-character Impact is being viewed as the leader (or equilvilant of it). That and I don't care that much either way, although I'm keeping to my end of the bargin by having Renny being obedient and such.

Traitor!

Originally Posted by Menarker

I especially do not agree with this. Character roles are going to change drastically over time as people get upgrades or change how their character interacts. Let's take Pierce. At the moment, he's a trainer, not much of a fighter (at least compared to Slayers and Pokebrids). Now if he goes demon or slayer, then his role is going to change drastically because he has the option of partaking in battle more directly, using more items if he's a slayer and whatnot. Or about Renny having that move in the future which attacks multiple times when his allies are weak or knocked out? That's a bit of a change from his current support style to actually having a powerful (although situational) attack. Plus, we might have intentions about how they develop and grow.

That's one of the things that needs to be ironed out, really.

It should be that you can't, say... make Renny into an offensive powerhouse as well as a defensive wall.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

That's one of the things that needs to be ironed out, really.

It should be that you can't, say... make Renny into an offensive powerhouse as well as a defensive wall.

Really, I think that should be left up to the player. The moves themselves, yes, that can be worked on to ensure relative fairness. But how much offense or defense someone works up into? That should be up to the player. Let's say that Pierce starts out pretty offensively, and suddenly someone close to him dies. Then he might work on defense some more as a sort of character development/resolve to help save people.

Basically, for every level of upgrades and for every skill we earn (since there is a limit on how many we can have), we are constantly making a choice of we want to go more offense or more defense/support. If someone decides to go all offense all the way, he/she is going to be a powerhouse to be reckoned with. If someone intends to be defensive all the way, he/she is going to be a mighty foothold that few can ever penetrate! If someone wants to be the jack of all trades, then he/she will perhaps find a purpose no matter where he/she goes.
Basically, each option is a choice on whether to build on a strength or try to build on a weakness. However, at the same time, someone could be building on their strength thus taking advantage of your weakness, or tower even higher than what your strength was before.

For your example, Renny COULD try to be a bit of a powerhouse later on, but since he starts on that late, he won't be as consistantly good a powerhouse as Impact or Pierce if they maintained their path. Plus, at the same time, if he tries going offensive, then his supportive skills will not climb any higher even though the difficulty of the foes are sure to increase.

But yes, someone who branches out should not be better/equal in a field than someone who specialized in that skill more than he did.

[Astral Harmony]

Geminex isn't really getting anything out of me for anything. I basically told him who he's getting on his side. Now, how they're going to react to him or how he's going to use them will ultimately be determined by a tug of war between how Impact develops, what Geminex wants and a plotline that will not be denied and will not be revealed until due time has passed.

I dunno about you, but if I was in his spot, I probably wouldn't even want the role of world conqueror. Sure, he's got all these kickass allies, but he's going to have the worst time imaginable keeping hold of everything he's won. There's just going to be so many things out to kill him, and I haven't even introduced the biggest nemesis yet.

Oh, and here's the sprite comic. The joke is a little used already, but I do hope it brings a smile to your collective faces.

[Menarker]

0.o

Well, it's an interesting first comic for sure...

The PATCA hallways are decorated like that? What sort of no standard organization are we running here?

EDIT: Interesting to note that Matthias isn't on that list. Does he not count as a male anymore? Or a PC for that matter?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Matt is much to mysterious for a relationship.

They didn't even think about him because he is so mysterious.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

But yes, someone who branches out should not be better/equal in a field than someone who specialized in that skill more than he did.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. I have no idea why in hell you wrote all that other crap.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Geminex isn't really getting anything out of me for anything. I basically told him who he's getting on his side. Now, how they're going to react to him or how he's going to use them will ultimately be determined by a tug of war between how Impact develops, what Geminex wants and a plotline that will not be denied and will not be revealed until due time has passed.

Do we get to know who he's getting on his side?

As for that bolded part... wanna bet?

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

I dunno about you, but if I was in his spot, I probably wouldn't even want the role of world conqueror. Sure, he's got all these kickass allies, but he's going to have the worst time imaginable keeping hold of everything he's won. There's just going to be so many things out to kill him, and I haven't even introduced the biggest nemesis yet.

Impact's biggest nemesis has to be Pierce. There is no other option. The position for second biggest nemesis is wide open, though. Throw your world-eating abomination there if you want.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

comic

Pierce may be adventurous, sure, but how can Lola hope to match up to Chizuru if she can't be adventurous herself?

Ooooohhh, burn!

[Menarker]

I said all that because your statement earlier did not seem like that was what you meant at all.

It should be that you can't, say... make Renny into an offensive powerhouse as well as a defensive wall.

You kinda made it sound like Renny (or anyone else) had no right attempting to become offensively strong if they were already considered defensively strong. I only clarified it so that anyone had the right to do so, if he invested his level-up rewards specifically for that as opposed to boosting his support or what not.

[Dracorion]

Eh, I was pressed for time when I was writing it. Sorry if that wasn't clear.